Opinions on Importance/Cost of GearFollow

You're completely right. Equipment for melees is much more important than equipment for casters. Fighters are all about three things: Hit points, armor class, and aggro ability. For all melees the first two are mainly equipment based, and for aggro, weapons play a huge part. It's less about skill for a tank and more about having the raw HP/AC to stay alive during a fight.

For casters it's more about skill than any raw stat. Sure, that extra mana you get from having 255 int is nice, but most people would take a caster who knows what he/she is doing and maybe had 200int over a caster with max int who isn't too skilled. Conversely, when choosing a tank, the first thing asked, and the most important factor in the decision is "what's your HP/AC?"

Usually, you can find good gear for any class pretty cheap, and you can find slightly better, or more rare gear for much higher. That's true for every class. And there are positives to doing armor quests. First is the feeling of accomplishment that you get. You usually don't get that feeling when you shell out the cash for the item in the bazaar. Another is that you tend to get a reputation as a knowledgeable and skilled player when you're sporting that rare quest reward.

As far as your necromancer goes, I would think about working on getting him items with hit point bonuses. Once you get your lich line of spells(especially at level 49+), you're going to find that int is actually your second most important stat as a necro after hit points.

This is not true.

It was a very long time ago before focus items and Flowing Thought, but certainly not now.

Many people still think this way because the main tank's ability to handle damage is obvious to one and all. Where as a poorly equipped caster is not so obvious to see (exceptions to some extent are the Cleric and Enchanter where, if they are oom too frequently the group will notice).

But mostly, if the wizzy runs out of mana and sits through a few pulls not many people take much notice. Ditto the Necro, if he never twitches, never pinch heals, people are more likely to assume that he is just not a very good player.

But the fact is that having the right focus items, having Flowing Thought and having good resist stats make a very big difference to the effectiveness of a caster.

If all you ever do as a caster is sit on a zone edge grinding exp, you may never notice the need for bigger, faster, longer, lower mana consumption, higher mana regnen spell casting. But if you start getting into serious LDoN missions, trials and ring events you will feel decidedly naked without them.

Alright...

Iluien, lvl44+ focus items are very expensive and I just plain can't afford them, and unless a person has a higher lvl alt, at my lvl (41) I don't think it's possible to be decked out with such gear...

I realize that caster gear can't just be trivialized, but my question was meant more as a comparison between the importance of caster gear vs tank gear...It doesn't really help to say that "gear is important for all classes"...

Bottom line -- Would I be most effective if I were to level my caster classes (mainly necro, but also a druid) into their 60's and then use their profits as a means to better equip my tank/melee classes (mainly my war) so that they are more effective on their way up to 65?

Keep in mind I'm only lvl41 right now, and I'm sure as I level more, I will have a greater opportunity to make plat (from reading other forums, it makes most sense to make enough plat to moderately equip yourself and keep yourself in spells, then get to 65 and worry about making plat, as the time spent to plat ratio will be highest at lvl65)...IMO I would have a much tougher time trying to level my warrior into the upper levels without having another toon already there with the ability to outfit my warrior so he can be most effective...

Bascially, the first toon you take to the upper lvls is going to be handicapped (If you disagree with this, please elaborate...) relative to toons of similar lvl who have higher lvl alts to keep them well geared (Like I say, I can't afford a set of gear with all the important 44+ foci and significant hp boosts, but I've seen plenty of casters at my level with gear like that) (my int is 205, but my sta/hp is really low, and my foci will all expire at lvl44)...Anyway point is, IMO its better for my necro to be handicapped than my warrior....

I'll agree, the old "casters just need int/wis and +mana" is no longer true. It's not the size of your mana pool, it's how fast you can regain it and how efficiently you use it. Give me a wizard with appropriate focus items and FT10 over a wiz with maxed Int and +1000 mana from items any day of the week.



Your current Foci will serve you perfectly fine up until 49. Level 2 focus effects work on up to level 44 spells. You'll still be casting level 44 spells at 48, and even 49 you'll still be using a mix of 44/49. If there is one you can't find yet but need for an adventure or something, get tribute focus for it while you need it, or beg a magician in PoK for a couple pieces of jewelry. Opal bracelet for example is improved damage II, but works on spells up to 52 instead of 44.

But don't think that you can't play without uber gear, you'll be able to do 90% of the game while you equip yourself. Once you want to start doing upper end trials/planes/etc, yes you'll need to be better equipped, but that's a ways off. Once you get to 55+ leveling slows down ALOT compared to how fast you are going now, you'll get lots of money then :) not even counting the AA grind.

Edited, Fri May 14 10:27:09 2004 by Toasticle

The best way to play is to enjoy it

To answer your first post more fully. The best pp farmers are the soloers. You say you have a necro? If you level that, it will be able to farm where others cannot for good money and drops to equip the others.

Interesting thread, I have been thinking along these lines myself ever since my chanter passed my old main pally - greed rolls for LDON items at mid 50s would be far superior than what my mid 40s pally would get (who is low in both hp and ac since I have never bought him anything at the bazarr for his level and he hasnt done much LDON). My daughter's clc BP is from a LDON drop my chanter got for example and her neck peice came from a drop doing my first POI group with the chanter.

With regard to gear, I would agree early on that caster gear is not as critical as tank's gear to success - my chanter never did any of the newbie armor quests (she was lv 22 when LDON came out and nearly all her gear is LDON except for one peice of fabled that I got finally during the 5th anniversary). This started to change though when I got into my mid 40s, at this point I got a lot of agro on resists during crowd control and while my INT is close to maxed out and charisma is over 200 - I have been working on boosting HPs and AC to try and stay alive a little longer for that heal spell to land (if I had a plat for everytime the cleric said "so sorry heal landed just after you died" or "I couldnt heal fast enough to offset the damage you were taking, I would be rich LOL).

I would say that uber twinks I have seen tend to be alts with higher level mains - how many times has a member shown you an item that is well above their min level.

Heh. You can say that again. I think that SKs and Pallys get it the worst though. While a Ranger like Jennock's is nice and all that, no one *expects* a ranger to be able to tank well. Expectation versus what would be a bonus is a huge issue IMO.

Gear matters for all classes, however, a group will not fail if the wizard doesn't have the best focus items he could have (or any for that matter). It will not fail if the necro doesn't have Time level gear. It will probably not fail even if the cleric has no FT, or focus items. However, if your tank has crappy AC/HP, everyone in the group will notice. Now, maybe that's when a super well equipped healer will matter, but most of the rest of the time, it's not a matter of whether a healer can keep up with healing the tank mana-wise. It's about whether the healer can keep the tank from dying between heal spell casts. 99% of the time, the healer having a bunch of focus items and FT items just means he's got that much extra time/mana to contribute to DPS. The other 1% of the time, it's because the tank is getting wiped around by the mobs, and it's a struggle just to keep him alive.


That's why people percieve gear to matter more for melee characters, and tanks most of all. Jennock could probably show up for most groups wearing nothing but her weapons, and perform about 90% as well as when in full gear. She certainly wont die because she's not wearing armor. She'll just not dish out damage as well, or have as much flexibility. Same with casters. A naked wizard wont have his FT items (if he's got them in the first place), or focus items, but all that does is reduce the kill rate. It does not increase the likelyhood of a wipe significantly.


And that brings us back to Sks and Pallys. Sure, we get nice agro generation abilities, and some neato spells, but we do have to buy/obtain those spells. I've spent somewhere on the order of 70k on spells between level 61 and 65. That may not be a lot in comparison to most pure casters, but that's 70k that I wasnt able to spend on gear. Yet, we have the same requirements in terms of AC/HP affecting the whole groups survival as a warrior. We're expected to have the same AC/HP as warriors, but also have spells. In a world where we all don't have infinite money to spend, that's just not going to be the case...


Yeah. It shouldn't matter. People should understand that hybrids aren't going to have the same physical abilities as pure melee's. But they still compare us that way, especially us tanks. I get compared to warriors all the time. You'd be amazed how many times people will literally compare my HPs to that of a warrior, and demand to know why mine is lower. Silly? Yeah. But it does happen.


And dont even get me started on the people who will critisize the weapon your using (often with no understanding of why you want to use different weapons in differet situations). Bah...

So true! I am not in the 'high end' but Rallos Zek and Mithaneial Marr kills are no pushovers When we have failed these encounters it has been from the dps classes dying, the MT is often the last standing.

Equipment is AS important for the support classes. The more resist they have, the less damage they take from AoEs, the longer they stand top kill. The more hps they have, the longer they stand until someone can patch heal them (or the more 2k rampage hits they can absorb!).

Lowly geared people are the first to die on raids

Ah. Good point. I was really approaching it from a group situation. For the most part, if you're raiding, you're probably with a guild full of people who are about your level in terms of gear anyway, and raiding will get you better gear over time, so it's a wash. And if you are less geared then the rest of your guild, presumably they know this and accept it (we do have a friends and family clause in our app process).


Heh. But you're absolutely right. They do die *fast* in AE situations. It's kinda funny when I get put in the "goober" group. There'll be like two people who are regular members and maybe 4 who are alts, guests, or just newer members who haven't yet fully realized the importance of resist gear. Halfway thorugh the fight the two of us are literally untouched by any damage, I've spamed my group heals as much as possible,then just give up and let the four die because it's not worth keeping them alive anymore.

Rickea, .... First I would like to be the first to tell you what a LOAD OF CRAP. Let me take you back, well sort of you see there are more people then I could ever write down that played long before you. I dont know how to get people like yourself to understand that the point is not LDON , LDON LDON LDON LDON . Personally LDON, SUCKS it has given the me , me , me , me , me , crowd everything thing NOW. In my time there was such things as CAMPS. and WORKING for a peice of gear. you have no idea how at one time Having Jboots was creme a'la cream. It ment you put in the CAMP for them. Sony has taken this game to a new level of stupidity. Kill X number creature = this piece of armor. For me it has all but killed the game. It is pointless and brainless. you do your blah blah get your blah points blah blah spend X points for doing so many ldon blah blah take points and turn in for gear. Lets do the math, PERSONALY I'd rather take my chances at a raid and a roll at a piece of gear that so sweet it makes you cry. Why well you have taken a small army, 50 people, to kill said creature in a joined goal of having the SKILL of being able to do your job and personally. if I had to deael with people of your play style I think I would sooner drop you off at the nearest slave trading camp for trade for fresh batwing crunchies. And I'm sure enough of the NEW ldon's as I call them would likely stick up for you saying how it gives a chance for all those that dont play often enough for chance at things . But in a responce to what would be that thought someone may say. HOGWASH. Suck it up and realise that the idea behind EVER " QUEST" is to gain a fellowship on QUESTING items. Players like your self is why Nothing is ever learned anymore unless it's HAND fed, pre typed, pre posted with a nice bright shinny ribbon on top. Going back to when I was estatic over ( at the time) the soon to be released Luclin, All I can say is WOW. and you have no idea of the largest cross server quest ever underwent. I 'll not even say what it was. you was nto a player at the time. I have played since velious, back when the game had heart. You would see the same people on a normal basis. Then comes ldon and the players like your self here today gone tomarrow. Do me a favor and take yourself back to Final Fantasy. I like FF just as much as the next person they are great stories. But then I do prefer something that does not leave me with a since of loss.

Oh by the way. Get off your lazy bumm **** and go do some newbie armor quests. It's people like you that dont know the way to freeport from surefall glade. You dont know the vast bounty that the land can give since you and those like you are in to much a hurry never have the time blah blah blah . Point is Take the time . MAKE the time . if something is going to take you 4 hours ( OH MY GOD . I did camps where on weekends I would be awake and wired going XXXXX is camped mine mine mine go away mine mine mine no no no leave leave leave mine mine mine. and I would be going for 24 hours PLUS .) take the 4 hours and try ..... baking .. or brewing . hell you might learn there is more then kill the next creature around the corner. But if that's what your after I hear they are realising another doom/quake spin off just next week.

--------------- transmition terminated--------- Rant over.

Thraile, clearly my whole point was lost on you and that it has more to do with the fact you have something to show for a worth while effert. in doing something above brainless monkey work(= ldon) and that I have more respect for someone that has newbie cleric armor at lvl 40 then the person that is 26 and sporting ldons finest. think to your self ...... Why did they put those bonuses on the static zones .... Oh might have something to do with the fact that the people that know their way around the world are few and far between anymore. A person that has no idea where say ... tofs is at ... needs to get their head out of their collective ldon **** and learn more about the game before they like you start going on these kicks about whining over gear prices when in fact you can quest pieces you have no idea the value . or the fact of how easy they are to get. I'll go into details if I have to make it easier for you to understand and I'll even provide items of interest for you melee and caster alike.

Gabaji First thing IS first I Can do what I want in my typing My means IS only that of getting a Simple point out. and if you are so blind that you think there is no gear that you are able to get on your own and is an upgrade you are a waste of effert lets recap. There are items that you can get solo ... for certain classes that are well worth their weight in plat the problem is is that everyone is so gear driven that you are missing the motive behind the game. The thread is about gear, My statements are about gear and the lack of exploring that new players no longer do. I'm not the one with a short vision. what I'm trying to get people to understand is that there is a WHOLE world out side of the ldon generation. Get your head out of the sand, open your eyes. is's a GreaT big world out there. Lets see ... allow me to shed some light into your world in HOPE,, ( I pray not vain )that it will keep your eyes open. If you are so arrogant that you think that just becouse an item is able to be obtained by one group it is not an upgrade, That idea would only come from that of a child . ( Bigger = better) What I told them was instead of restricting their sight to the new. Why not revisit the old. you'll find that a pair of " OLD DAY" dragon boots still sought after but then , in your words who cares about the old days since you can just hop up to the bazaar and let your ebay plat do the shopping for you.

My opinion is just that Mine , Secondly I do not HAVE to LEARN to DEAL with anything. To me you are a dog. you lay down and take what ever is thrown to you. well in hopes that you'll get some scraps buy your ebay plat and have a field day otherwise. Or you can get your head out of the ground and open your eyes. Good loot does not ALWAYS come from raids. The whole idea is to learn your class, Learn your skills. Things take time. Just becouse you pay your 13/40 bucks a month when you buy the game it does not come with an inherited lvl 65 toon with elemental armor and 500K in the bank. Why even put in your two cents if what your saying is that no one should put in any effert into gear. Dont knock the simple things Just becouse someone was able to get it with one group. I say Dam good job. and if it was a task for them to pull it off all the better to you a low level group going after a black alloy medallion. is stupid since they can just go to the bazaar and buy one.

but then .... that would mean that the group going after it would have to be smart enough to know who drops it. and how to get there alive. It's not always about farming such things and that some people are prod to show that they did go to a certain lengh to achieve.

It's my world and you dont have to live in it. I dont tell you what to do in yours so.. do not ever think you can tell me what to do in mine. ldon/gates is what has pushed the players like my self to move on. becouse it has left the game to players like you. Live happy and .. please die young .

Okay, reality check here...most of the items that are worth buying from adventure merchants takes easily 10+ adventures to earn, regardless of your level thanks to the scaled point rewards.

Now, who's worked harder for that piece of gear, the player who had to put together or find 10-20 groups, and spend an hour plus each time working with that group to succeed, or the person who sat on his duff in the game killing a placeholder every 15 minutes till their target mob spawned?

Sounds to me like the person doing the adventures has done MUCH more work to earn that item than you did to earn those precious jboots.



What exactly do you think you DID when you camped for those jboots??? You killed X number of mobs till the named spawned=jboots(yes, it was a random number of mobs till the named spawn, but that doesn't change the basic system).



So let me understand...you'd rather be in a huge group where the goal is to pretty much overwhelm the target with superior numbers where in the end you personally have little or no responsibility for the success of the encounter beyond being just one part of the damage equation, or healing equation so that you can enjoy an item that you would have ZERO chance of earning if you didn't have forty nine other people propping you up, than be in a small group where EVERYONE has a large responsibility for the sucess of the group.

Last time I checked, a smaller group usually meant more responsibility for the individual members, which meant that smaller groups required MORE skill by the individuals to succeed than larger groups did.

I think you need to sign up for a remedial math class at your local community college.



Again, going back to your wonderful jboot quest, How exactly is sitting is one spot and being an *** running every person off that comes into sight creating more fellowship than doing adventures which REQUIRE you to group with other people and work together in order to achieve your goal.

While you're heading to that remedial math class, stop by the library and look up what the meaning of that word fellowship is. I think you'd be surprised to read the definition.



I can understand why you don't like the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion. Anything that requires grouping and cooperation in order to achieve a goal would probably be a major turn off to someone who sounds as greedy and anti-social as you're revealing yourself to be in this post...