Just wondering if anyone else has ever refused being power-leveled, and if so, what response did you get?
I have returned from an extended field work job (with no access to the internet) and once again have started playing my rogue. When I told my brother and sister-in-law, first response I got was "We need to power level you up to 54th (currently 30th) so you can go on raids with us".
When I informed them that I would rather not power level as I would have pretty lackluster skills (I like to keep them maxxed out if possible) I was given the look normally reserved for folks that have just had an extra appendage grow out of their forehead.
What has been your experience with these situations?
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Refuse being power-leveld?Follow
few times i turned down a chance to get PL, but that was way back before i knew most of the classes as well as i do now.
if i dont know how to play X class and am learning it from scratch. ill twink a little to help me a tad (less then 2k type twink) and then ill group and solo as much as i can until i get that toon into mid 30s or maybe lower 40s so i understand the class.
if at a later time i want to start that class up again, but get him back to were i know, yeah ill take a PL at that point in time, but tha is just me.
if i dont know how to play X class and am learning it from scratch. ill twink a little to help me a tad (less then 2k type twink) and then ill group and solo as much as i can until i get that toon into mid 30s or maybe lower 40s so i understand the class.
if at a later time i want to start that class up again, but get him back to were i know, yeah ill take a PL at that point in time, but tha is just me.
I think he's talking about the kind of PL that, for instance, uses a lvl 65 damage shield on a level 30 toon, as opposed to a twinking PL.
I have turned down the former, and also do not use my higher levels to PL in that way, because doing so is a disservice to the character being PL'd. If the mobs are dying on a high damage shield, your offensive skills suffer, and your defensive skills suffer. If I PL anyone at all, it is just to sit by and heal them and root the occasional add so they don't have as much down time between mobs. If the person being PL'd is a caster or hybrid, I make sure they are (a) casting spells as well as melee, and (b)sit every once in a while so they do not wind up at level 30 with a Meditation (18).
Finally, I only PL guildies or friends that I know are competent players, know how to play in a group, etc. I would also not (or ask to be) powerleveled for SO many levels. I don't think there is any good way to do it from 30-54, to use your example, that does not have a detrimental affect.
A few levels here and there to get to a spell threshold? Fine. But going from 30-54 on a true powerlevel is going to give you a weak character IMHO. I would rather take longer and kick some butt when I get there. If they want to help you, let them sit on the sidelines and heal while you solo, cast haste on you for weapons skills, or do other things that allow you to level faster without sacrificing the integrity of your sills.
I have turned down the former, and also do not use my higher levels to PL in that way, because doing so is a disservice to the character being PL'd. If the mobs are dying on a high damage shield, your offensive skills suffer, and your defensive skills suffer. If I PL anyone at all, it is just to sit by and heal them and root the occasional add so they don't have as much down time between mobs. If the person being PL'd is a caster or hybrid, I make sure they are (a) casting spells as well as melee, and (b)sit every once in a while so they do not wind up at level 30 with a Meditation (18).
Finally, I only PL guildies or friends that I know are competent players, know how to play in a group, etc. I would also not (or ask to be) powerleveled for SO many levels. I don't think there is any good way to do it from 30-54, to use your example, that does not have a detrimental affect.
A few levels here and there to get to a spell threshold? Fine. But going from 30-54 on a true powerlevel is going to give you a weak character IMHO. I would rather take longer and kick some butt when I get there. If they want to help you, let them sit on the sidelines and heal while you solo, cast haste on you for weapons skills, or do other things that allow you to level faster without sacrificing the integrity of your sills.
Quote:
I think he's talking about the kind of PL that, for instance, uses a lvl 65 damage shield on a level 30 toon, as opposed to a twinking PL.
I have turned down the former, and also do not use my higher levels to PL in that way, because doing so is a disservice to the character being PL'd. If the mobs are dying on a high damage shield, your offensive skills suffer, and your defensive skills suffer.
I have turned down the former, and also do not use my higher levels to PL in that way, because doing so is a disservice to the character being PL'd. If the mobs are dying on a high damage shield, your offensive skills suffer, and your defensive skills suffer.
The skills that would lag behind are non melee skills and for a rogue all you need to do is set up a macro to train your other skills between pulls and then every 5 levels go to befallen to work on Pick lock.
In attual fact the type of power leveling that hurts melee's is grouping with a high level druid who kites while you 'Suck' xp, this is generally fine for a caster who can practice spells while this is going on and while defence and such skills may suffer it is not a huge problem since many non PL casters are exactly the same.
While i have no problem with refusing PL's and i have never taken one myself, it should be refused for the right reasons not because of some myth.
The true danger with power leveling is reaching a high level so fast the your own skills as a player lack rather than the skill of your charicter.
While most of my melee skills may not suffer, my BackStab ability (the way I normally do the most damage and one of the reasons I think I will be wanted in higher lvl groups is for my BackStab ability), will ultimately suffer.
While I do macro alot of my skills: Sense Trap, Disarm Trap, Intimidate, Pick Pocket and such, I have found that my dual weild and backstab are the slowest of the skills to level. I feel that I can level these faster in a group than I can being PL'd.
Not to mention the fact that I am more of a "group oriented" player, I dislike soloing (otherwise I would have made a Necro), and am having entirely too much fun with the groups I have been in, as I really enjoy the interaction with groupmembers.
(edit)
Oh, and I did mean more of a xp grind power leveling, this is not my main toon so while he is not uber-twinked, he has good gear for his lvl.
Edited, Mon May 3 13:14:26 2004 by StandsInShadow
While I do macro alot of my skills: Sense Trap, Disarm Trap, Intimidate, Pick Pocket and such, I have found that my dual weild and backstab are the slowest of the skills to level. I feel that I can level these faster in a group than I can being PL'd.
Not to mention the fact that I am more of a "group oriented" player, I dislike soloing (otherwise I would have made a Necro), and am having entirely too much fun with the groups I have been in, as I really enjoy the interaction with groupmembers.
(edit)
Oh, and I did mean more of a xp grind power leveling, this is not my main toon so while he is not uber-twinked, he has good gear for his lvl.
Edited, Mon May 3 13:14:26 2004 by StandsInShadow
I think they will get over it. I have turned it down before because, I too want to expreience the leveling of my character in a natural way. I have not been in the company of those who offered, but I imagine their expressions were close to the same.
I am sure their surprise came about because so many people simply want levels. It is not as common anymore to find the person who would prefer to earn it on their characters own skills and merits.
Now, getting high level buffs, while it is a form of PLing...it is not nearly as bad as sitting a 65 cleric next to a 10 warrior and keeping him healed while he fights every red that comes along. In fact, we all help each other level when we buff or tank for each other. I know without a tank my cleric would have a hard time leveling, and without me the tank would level slow. So it is a give and take.
My rule of thumb is that if I could have succeeded in the situation on my own, then having a buff or two is not going to cause me any skill troubles. Getting buffs from higher levels is also something that can and should be incorporated into RPing. It is entirely conceivable that a 50th cleric could feel the urge to cast a buff or two on a poor soul trying to take on some higher level mobs that he comes upon. Now, is it likely the same cleric, with his busy schedule would be willing to sit and watch this newbie fight for days and days keeping him alive, out of kindness? No, not at all.
I am sure their surprise came about because so many people simply want levels. It is not as common anymore to find the person who would prefer to earn it on their characters own skills and merits.
Now, getting high level buffs, while it is a form of PLing...it is not nearly as bad as sitting a 65 cleric next to a 10 warrior and keeping him healed while he fights every red that comes along. In fact, we all help each other level when we buff or tank for each other. I know without a tank my cleric would have a hard time leveling, and without me the tank would level slow. So it is a give and take.
My rule of thumb is that if I could have succeeded in the situation on my own, then having a buff or two is not going to cause me any skill troubles. Getting buffs from higher levels is also something that can and should be incorporated into RPing. It is entirely conceivable that a 50th cleric could feel the urge to cast a buff or two on a poor soul trying to take on some higher level mobs that he comes upon. Now, is it likely the same cleric, with his busy schedule would be willing to sit and watch this newbie fight for days and days keeping him alive, out of kindness? No, not at all.
I said:
Tarv said:
I respecfully disagree with Tarv. Sure, you will be doing some damage while the mob also dies on your DS, but the mobs will die much faster, therefore not allowing you to hit them as much before they are dead. As a result, weapons skills will suffer - as a point of fact, not myth. Will they be totally lacking? No, of course not because you are using them in conjunction with the DS. They also won't be as high as they could have been for the simple reason that you did not use them as much as you could have to get from level X to level Y...I don't see how that can be debated. Maybe I am missing something?
Quote:
I think he's talking about the kind of PL that, for instance, uses a lvl 65 damage shield on a level 30 toon, as opposed to a twinking PL. I have turned down the former, and also do not use my higher levels to PL in that way, because doing so is a disservice to the character being PL'd. If the mobs are dying on a high damage shield, your offensive skills suffer, and your defensive skills suffer.
Tarv said:
Quote:
This is not the case past level 20 for melee's the base skills of weapon skill offence and defence will go up as fast as if you where normally leveling, since you would be hitting the mob and being hit.
I respecfully disagree with Tarv. Sure, you will be doing some damage while the mob also dies on your DS, but the mobs will die much faster, therefore not allowing you to hit them as much before they are dead. As a result, weapons skills will suffer - as a point of fact, not myth. Will they be totally lacking? No, of course not because you are using them in conjunction with the DS. They also won't be as high as they could have been for the simple reason that you did not use them as much as you could have to get from level X to level Y...I don't see how that can be debated. Maybe I am missing something?
Quote:
I respecfully disagree with Tarv. Sure, you will be doing some damage while the mob also dies on your DS, but the mobs will die much faster,
please engage brain before replying.
ok i will have put it nice and easy for you
Non Powerleveled.
1. At level 30 a rogue will not be soloing, there for he would be doing at the most 1/3rd of the damage <more like a 1/4.>
2. A good rogue at lvl 30 may take 1-2 hits or less per mob.
Powerleveled
1. At level 30 a rogue with good wepons will be duel wielding and doing between 15 -35 damage per hit. this means his damage would be roughly equal to the damage shield. so he would be doing half the damage
It would concurrently take longer to kill that mob and therefore he would be hitting it more. Hitting more = more skill ups for weapons and Offence. Note you can skill up backstab even if you are not behind them, you just miss.
2. He would be getting hit all the time therefore his Defence would be far higher than a like level rogue who is evading.
Thank you for your attention, please research you material before questioning the validity of my posts.
OK Tarv, maybe you're right as far as Rogues go, and maybe you're not. I was also speaking generally about PLing, which should be evident from the post. In typical fashion, your attitude is more harsh than required. Maybe that is the reason your Karma is under 3, since your content is usually pretty valid (and no, I am not rating you down despite your disparaging tone). I'm also not going to engage in a pissing contest about it. People can choose to PL or not to PL; I frankly could not give any less of a sh%t. I am merely providing my opinion to the original poster which is, last time I checked, the purpose of the forum.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
If you are a compentent player and have played the class before, being powerleveled from your mid-30's to lvl 50 is not going to really hurt your character in any significant way.
By level 39 you hit most of your skill caps and your skills will no longer go up until you hit level 50. So If you are an active part of a group of higher level characters gaining experience fighting a bunch of red mobs, your skills are not going to take a hit at all.
So, game mechanics wise, your character at this point is not going to be deficient in its skills. On the other hand if you want to level your character for the sense of accomplishment of doing it yourself then great.
Personally, I get my greatest enjoyment playing everquest with my friends.
By level 39 you hit most of your skill caps and your skills will no longer go up until you hit level 50. So If you are an active part of a group of higher level characters gaining experience fighting a bunch of red mobs, your skills are not going to take a hit at all.
So, game mechanics wise, your character at this point is not going to be deficient in its skills. On the other hand if you want to level your character for the sense of accomplishment of doing it yourself then great.
Personally, I get my greatest enjoyment playing everquest with my friends.
I have mixed feelings about powerleveling. I do think that it harms the truly newbie player in the long run...they will not learn how to play their class as well as they would in a group. For example, a newbie playing a warrior and being powerlevelled, won't realize the importance of Taunt and likely won't use it. (My warrior was my first character, I soloed until about level 12, and didn't start working on taunt until then. It was fairly easy to catch up, but what if I'd been PL'd to 30?) I cleric who is PL'd won't realize that timing heals and sitting is important for aggro management as well as for the health of the characters being healed. A ranger who is PL'd won't be working on archery...a nuke-happy wizard being PL'd won't realize what an impact a nuke has on aggro...
However...someone who has played other characters and levelled up naturally to a significant degree...will have noticed the behavior of other classes, and noticed the good and the bad. When I started my cleric, I knew that sitting right after a heal was bad, I knew that if I did get aggro then running around like a chicken with my head cut off would not get the mob off me any faster than standing still. I believe that PLing an experienced player with a new toon can be done intelligently so that it doesn't harm them in the long run.
As far as roleplaying goes.....true, a powerful druid isn't likely to spend their time watching a stranger fight out of the goodness of their heart. BUT...if that druid is, say, the big brother of a young ranger...or is helping an ally of his people out of a feeling of responsibility....or owes a life-debt to the mother of that troll shaman...Or maybe the druid is just a mercenary and that little warrior is a spoiled heir.... There are plenty of ways to justify, via roleplaying, why someone would powerlevel someone else.
However...someone who has played other characters and levelled up naturally to a significant degree...will have noticed the behavior of other classes, and noticed the good and the bad. When I started my cleric, I knew that sitting right after a heal was bad, I knew that if I did get aggro then running around like a chicken with my head cut off would not get the mob off me any faster than standing still. I believe that PLing an experienced player with a new toon can be done intelligently so that it doesn't harm them in the long run.
As far as roleplaying goes.....true, a powerful druid isn't likely to spend their time watching a stranger fight out of the goodness of their heart. BUT...if that druid is, say, the big brother of a young ranger...or is helping an ally of his people out of a feeling of responsibility....or owes a life-debt to the mother of that troll shaman...Or maybe the druid is just a mercenary and that little warrior is a spoiled heir.... There are plenty of ways to justify, via roleplaying, why someone would powerlevel someone else.
My experience has generally been the same as yours.
I do not care for PLing at any level.
Your astute observation of the resultant lvl40 with 1HS of 15, etc. being my main objection, as well.
the game is a journey not a destination.
I do not care for PLing at any level.
Your astute observation of the resultant lvl40 with 1HS of 15, etc. being my main objection, as well.
the game is a journey not a destination.
Dedaien wrote:
OK Tarv, maybe you're right as far as Rogues go, and maybe you're not. I was also speaking generally about PLing, which should be evident from the post.
No, Tarv wasn't maybe right as far as rogues go, he was completely right for ALL classes. A damage shield is not going to add up to the amount of damage a full group is going to do at 30+. This means two things, 1. You're going to have to swing that weapon MORE times to get the kill than you would in a group situation(thus more skill ups with your weapons). 2. It's going to take MORE time for the mob to die than it would in a regular group, and you're going to be taking all the hits from the mob(thus more defensive skill ups).
The key is the level of the person being powerleveled. If you're being powerleveled from 1-30 of course your weapon skills are going to be far behind as the damage shield is the vast majority of your damage output. At 30+ the damage shield is NOT your major source of damage output hence it doesn't outpace your skills. Try reading the OP and understanding the situation before you post your comments.
Dedaien wrote:
In typical fashion, your attitude is more harsh than required. Maybe that is the reason your Karma is under 3
I'm sorry if you assumed that putting an inane opening like "I respectfully disagree" at the opening to a rebuttal where you're completely wrong in your information should make you immune to criticism, but it doesn't.
People read these boards not only for opinions, but also for helpful information. If you post wrong information about something, that's someone who's playing the game based on a fallicy that YOU gave to them. If you're going to post incorrect information, then when someone corrects you on it(and he was perfectly civil in his correction of you I might add), you're wrong headed enough to think "Oh, someone wrote something contrary to what I did, I need to reply and argue against him" without thinking about the information(which you obviously did because after tarv responded with his second, less civil post you conceeded that MAYBE he was right after all) then you deserve to get told to press the reset button on your brain and think about things a bit more before posting again.
Let's look at the only two contrary comments Tarv put in his post shall we?
tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:
please engage brain before replying.
tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:
Thank you for your attention, please research you material before questioning the validity of my posts.
That's pretty much what you deserved to hear after he was quite civil in correcting you, and you without considering it challenged his correct information.
And as far as his sub 3.00 rating, he has that because he upset a regular when he was new to the boards, who proceeded to rate him down. It has nothing to do with his attitude as he's usually a pretty friendly person.
As far as your crap about "only giving an opinion" care to explain what you meant when you said:
Dedaien wrote:
weapons skills will suffer - as a point of fact, not myth
Edited because I forgot my smiley
Edited, Wed May 5 00:05:08 2004 by danreynolds
Falling behind your friends in terms of progression can be quite an issue though.
How serious depends on a couple of things, firstly how close a friend we are talking about, second is whether they are good players you really want to be with.
If the reasons to stay with them are strong and valid, it probably is better to go the PL route - knowing you will skip some nice content (and will have to go back to get some of your masks in any case) and that you will need a plan to ramp up the skills that fall behind.
You shouldn't worry about the skills falling behind a bit, clearly you have some clues about the game or you wouldn't be worrying about the issue or asking the question, on this basis I'm sure you will find a way to catch up backstab and don't forget about sneak and hide, vital tools for a Rogue.
How serious depends on a couple of things, firstly how close a friend we are talking about, second is whether they are good players you really want to be with.
If the reasons to stay with them are strong and valid, it probably is better to go the PL route - knowing you will skip some nice content (and will have to go back to get some of your masks in any case) and that you will need a plan to ramp up the skills that fall behind.
You shouldn't worry about the skills falling behind a bit, clearly you have some clues about the game or you wouldn't be worrying about the issue or asking the question, on this basis I'm sure you will find a way to catch up backstab and don't forget about sneak and hide, vital tools for a Rogue.
Well, I have all practicable (is that a word?) skills currently maxxed out, that is all but backstab and intimidate. Just that I don't want to get PL'ed up and be lacking and have to go back and mindlessly spam picklock, sneak, hide, sense trap, disarm trap and intimidate for hours on end, in an effort to catch up in my skills.
That and I kinda like having all the skills I do have current, current. Makes me feel more..I dunno..complete somehow.
As for the people wanting to PL me, they are my brother and his wife, so yeah I kinda like em :-) so that is not an issue.
I was just wondering if anyone else has ever refused being PL'ed and what their reasons were.
That and I kinda like having all the skills I do have current, current. Makes me feel more..I dunno..complete somehow.
As for the people wanting to PL me, they are my brother and his wife, so yeah I kinda like em :-) so that is not an issue.
I was just wondering if anyone else has ever refused being PL'ed and what their reasons were.
The skills issue got thoroughly thrashed out in another thread recently. The mantra of "PL=low skill" is nonsense so long as the PL is done sensibly. Danreynolds and Tarv have given the arguments pretty thoroughly.
If the PLers are friends then special skills can be worked on in various ways. For example a session with a druid fear-kiting animals will give you a great opportunity to practise backstab. Or a shaman who can hold aggro solidly will let you backstab away while the mob beats on them.
However on the original question of turning down a PL:
This is an unusual occurrence in that strangers don't tend to offer PL to people so the people offering it are likely to be friends. So you have to factor in all the other consequences. For example will they interpret your saying "no" as meaning you don't want to play with them?
To look at it from the opposite perspective I have a permanent group 1 day a week, untwinked and unassisted for 30 odd levels. A couple of months ago we lost our tank because of internet problems. We filled in with "guest" tanks from the guild and kept levelling. When the guy finally got his connection back we were 10 levels on. We discussed it and offered to use our mains to get him back up to at least LDoN range - he declined. This puts everyone in an awkward position. The group can't do LDoN with him and he is not planar either so options tend to be very limited for everyone else while we find places where he can tank.
If the PLers are friends then special skills can be worked on in various ways. For example a session with a druid fear-kiting animals will give you a great opportunity to practise backstab. Or a shaman who can hold aggro solidly will let you backstab away while the mob beats on them.
However on the original question of turning down a PL:
This is an unusual occurrence in that strangers don't tend to offer PL to people so the people offering it are likely to be friends. So you have to factor in all the other consequences. For example will they interpret your saying "no" as meaning you don't want to play with them?
To look at it from the opposite perspective I have a permanent group 1 day a week, untwinked and unassisted for 30 odd levels. A couple of months ago we lost our tank because of internet problems. We filled in with "guest" tanks from the guild and kept levelling. When the guy finally got his connection back we were 10 levels on. We discussed it and offered to use our mains to get him back up to at least LDoN range - he declined. This puts everyone in an awkward position. The group can't do LDoN with him and he is not planar either so options tend to be very limited for everyone else while we find places where he can tank.
Wherever I go - there I am.
I wanted to quit posting on this thread but am unable to stop myself. I am also trying to understand where it is my logic is flawed.
The orignal poster was not talking about a group situation - he was talking about 1 powerleveler and one person being powerleveled. Obviously, no matter what the DS is, a solo person being healed will swing more on his own than he would in a group. I never said otherwise, so let's forget about groups for a moment.
No, its not your major source of damage. I never said it was. All I said was your skills would not go up as fast with a DS as they would without it. Unless all his weapon skills are maxed out at level 34, I stand by the statement. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty basic to me:
Here is an oversimplified example of why I posted the way I did. Assume the mob in the following example has 500 hp, the player does 10 damage per swimg, and the DS is 10. Assume for the sake of argument that all swings are successful.
Toon A (no DS)
Swings 50 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
Toon B (10 DS)
Swings 25 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
The defensive skills would be the same: he's getting hit 25 times in both scenarios. But Toon B, gets fewer opportunities to swing because the mob has lost 250 hp to the damage shield.
I am not trying to be difficult, but it seems like a case of simple mathematics to me. Is it going to cause an earth-shattering deficit in his skills? No. But it does have a negative effect, doesn't it?
Please try to resist the urge to flame me or tell me to "do my research," "engage my brain," etc. If I'm wrong, I would just like to understand why. That's one of the reasons I pay for the privilege of posting on these boards.
Quote:
A damage shield is not going to add up to the amount of damage a full group is going to do at 30+.
The orignal poster was not talking about a group situation - he was talking about 1 powerleveler and one person being powerleveled. Obviously, no matter what the DS is, a solo person being healed will swing more on his own than he would in a group. I never said otherwise, so let's forget about groups for a moment.
Quote:
At 30+ the damage shield is NOT your major source of damage output hence it doesn't outpace your skills.
No, its not your major source of damage. I never said it was. All I said was your skills would not go up as fast with a DS as they would without it. Unless all his weapon skills are maxed out at level 34, I stand by the statement. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty basic to me:
Here is an oversimplified example of why I posted the way I did. Assume the mob in the following example has 500 hp, the player does 10 damage per swimg, and the DS is 10. Assume for the sake of argument that all swings are successful.
Toon A (no DS)
Swings 50 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
Toon B (10 DS)
Swings 25 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
The defensive skills would be the same: he's getting hit 25 times in both scenarios. But Toon B, gets fewer opportunities to swing because the mob has lost 250 hp to the damage shield.
I am not trying to be difficult, but it seems like a case of simple mathematics to me. Is it going to cause an earth-shattering deficit in his skills? No. But it does have a negative effect, doesn't it?
Please try to resist the urge to flame me or tell me to "do my research," "engage my brain," etc. If I'm wrong, I would just like to understand why. That's one of the reasons I pay for the privilege of posting on these boards.
I think the refusal of being PL by your friends may have been the wrong decision, based on the reasons that you have given.
Your melee skills would probably not even be affected. Your backstab and other non-melee skills would be affected slightly. And it all depends on how they were going to PL you. Even if you never used your skills at all, you for the most part would only be down approximately 45 skill points. And that is assuming that you are going to be PL every moment your character is logged on. You could have easily spent an hour or two practicing your picklock, and disarm traps when you weren't being PL. Which you would have had to do anyway. And being concerned about the intimidation skill is funny, since it is basically used for soloing rogues. Groups for the most part don't like mobs that get feared, which is what intimidation is. The only main skill that would suffer would be your backstab, maybe.
So the reasoning about your skills falling way behind isn't that big a deal considering you would have 20 levels to raise the skills only 45 points.
So now your friends can't group with you, which they obviously wanted too by their offer to PL you. And very possibly you will never be able to group with these friends again. Which I think is the real travisty.
Your melee skills would probably not even be affected. Your backstab and other non-melee skills would be affected slightly. And it all depends on how they were going to PL you. Even if you never used your skills at all, you for the most part would only be down approximately 45 skill points. And that is assuming that you are going to be PL every moment your character is logged on. You could have easily spent an hour or two practicing your picklock, and disarm traps when you weren't being PL. Which you would have had to do anyway. And being concerned about the intimidation skill is funny, since it is basically used for soloing rogues. Groups for the most part don't like mobs that get feared, which is what intimidation is. The only main skill that would suffer would be your backstab, maybe.
So the reasoning about your skills falling way behind isn't that big a deal considering you would have 20 levels to raise the skills only 45 points.
So now your friends can't group with you, which they obviously wanted too by their offer to PL you. And very possibly you will never be able to group with these friends again. Which I think is the real travisty.
Voelfgar Fireforge
105 Beserker
Mangler
105 Beserker
Mangler
Quote:
No, its not your major source of damage. I never said it was. All I said was your skills would not go up as fast with a DS as they would without it. Unless all his weapon skills are maxed out at level 34, I stand by the statement. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty basic to me:
Here is an oversimplified example of why I posted the way I did. Assume the mob in the following example has 500 hp, the player does 10 damage per swimg, and the DS is 10. Assume for the sake of argument that all swings are successful.
Toon A (no DS)
Swings 50 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
Toon B (10 DS)
Swings 25 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
The defensive skills would be the same: he's getting hit 25 times in both scenarios. But Toon B, gets fewer opportunities to swing because the mob has lost 250 hp to the damage shield.
Here is an oversimplified example of why I posted the way I did. Assume the mob in the following example has 500 hp, the player does 10 damage per swimg, and the DS is 10. Assume for the sake of argument that all swings are successful.
Toon A (no DS)
Swings 50 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
Toon B (10 DS)
Swings 25 times to kill the mob and gets hit 25 times during the fight.
The defensive skills would be the same: he's getting hit 25 times in both scenarios. But Toon B, gets fewer opportunities to swing because the mob has lost 250 hp to the damage shield.
You are wrong. Very simply your math and your logic are out.
The difference you identify is per fight. This is an irrelevant difference. What you should look at is per unit time
Using your figures the character without DS will kill slower than with it. With DS he gets less chance per fight to skill up but in the same length of time he gets the same number of chances. Hence without DS you get less exp than with it for the same rate of skill up per hour.
It would only become relevant if exp was so fast that it made a difference in levels. Provided that you can make 5 skill ups or more in less time than 1 level you are much better with the DS.
Also: Who hasted the mob?
If it hits 25 times in the time taken for the character to hit it 50 times then it cannot also hit 25 times in the much shorter time taken to kill it with the DS (unless you hasted it
) You have it hitting at half the rate of the character. This neatly means that in each "round" the character strikes twice and the mob once. The DS therefore also "strikes" once. Without DS it takes 20 dmg per round and dies in 25 rounds (50 hits) as you say. With DS it takes 30 dmg per round and dies in 17 rounds - it only hits the character 17 times. However with a continuous supply of mobs there is no loss in Defence rises since in a given length of time you get hit just the same number of times.
I think if you apply your reasoning to it you will be able to prove that it is impossible to shoot a running man.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Quote:
The orignal poster was not talking about a group situation - he was talking about 1 powerleveler and one person being powerleveled. Obviously, no matter what the DS is, a solo person being healed will swing more on his own than he would in a group. I never said otherwise, so let's forget about groups for a moment.
To take that further:- to gain levels at level 30 a rogue must group in order to progress. So it is foolish to forget about groups when argueing about PL'ing, since if the rogue wasn't being PL'd they would be in a group.
This is where your whole theory falls apart, to argue that mobs would die faster <thereby reducing the chance of skill ups> when a Rogue is PL'd compaired to a 6 person group is inaccurate.
I stated in my first Post the Melee's do not suffer post level 30 from DS powerleveling. Pure caster classes do, since opportunty to cast spells are limited.
The opposite is true of druid kiting powerleveling where the lower level charicter sucks the xp doesn't effect Pure caster to badly as they can raise Evoke atc while to mobs are being Kited. In this situation the Melee chars offence and defence will suffer.
The skill question is a Red herring at the best of times since alot of DSP classes will have Low Defence if not PL'd due to the lack of tanking they will generally do in group situations.
FACT: a rogue who is PL'd from 30 to 40 will have higher defence than a non PL'd rogue. I also say that thier offence and weapon skills will be uneffected.
There will be a question over backstab but if it is maxed at 30 then the rogue is fighting mobs that run at 20% there should be ample opportunity by 54 to have raised BS to max level.
I am not trying to be rude, i am trying to show you that your assumptions are wrong.
If you feel this is bad i am sorry but if you post completely incorrect infomation i will counter-post the correct infomation.
Quote:
If it hits 25 times in the time taken for the character to hit it 50 times then it cannot also hit 25 times in the much shorter time taken to kill it with the DS
You're right, Cobra. I was just trying to illustrate what I was talkiing about with some kind of an example. After reading your post, and Tarv's most recent, I do understand where you are coming from and agree.
Quote:
I am not trying to be rude, i am trying to show you that your assumptions are wrong. If you feel this is bad i am sorry but if you post completely incorrect infomation i will counter-post the correct infomation.
Its totally cool, Tarv. The only offense I took is that I actually HAD thought about the issue before posting. Turns out I was likely wrong, but I did think about it.
/em covers dead horse with dirt
Sorry, I fell into this groove also...but, the original post was:
Just wondering if anyone else has ever refused being power-leveled, and if so, what response did you get?
What has been your experience with these situations?
Did not mean for it to fall into a debate on whether or not PLing is evil or the savior of the hour, whether or not my refusal to being PL'd was the right thing to do, whether I have hurt anyone's feelings or not.... just curious if anyone else had done this and what was their experience on it.
Edited, Wed May 5 13:07:21 2004 by StandsInShadow
Just wondering if anyone else has ever refused being power-leveled, and if so, what response did you get?
What has been your experience with these situations?
Did not mean for it to fall into a debate on whether or not PLing is evil or the savior of the hour, whether or not my refusal to being PL'd was the right thing to do, whether I have hurt anyone's feelings or not.... just curious if anyone else had done this and what was their experience on it.
Edited, Wed May 5 13:07:21 2004 by StandsInShadow
No worries, brother. Its not your fault anyway...its TARV's! (just kdding) I didn't mean to give you bum advice either - just trying to help. At the end of the day, I concede that they're right that at this level, you should be ok. Plus, as WiscoPlayer very correctly stated:
True dat.
Quote:
So now your friends can't group with you, which they obviously wanted too by their offer to PL you. And very possibly you will never be able to group with these friends again. Which I think is the real travisty.
True dat.
It was all my fault i should be poisoned , shot, stabbed, hung, drawn and quartered and just before my heaad part dies....
note for all my promotion of Pl's i have never used one it's just not my thing. i would rather wait untill i got thier myself. but thats just me being pig headed.
If your friends leave you behind and you like playing with them get the PL if your not bothered than do your own thing.
note for all my promotion of Pl's i have never used one it's just not my thing. i would rather wait untill i got thier myself. but thats just me being pig headed.
If your friends leave you behind and you like playing with them get the PL if your not bothered than do your own thing.
7 posts
This coming from a player spending her 9th week in EQ. Level 31 Shaman. Playing nightly with friends from another MMO (and on Ventrilo).
I started on one server, a Beastlord, with a high level friend who kept pushing the powerleveling. Sending me, plat in hand to get temp, etc and then standing there helping me solo reds. Kill, Kill, Kill. This lasted about a week. I wasnt getting to do any of my newbie quests (so what if they are lame you learn your way around). I wasnt learning how to work in a group when I was logged in on my own. And I wasnt having a lot of fun.
Switched to server with friends who have played for many years but recently returned to a new server, for a fresh start. No money for twinking. We all started together just to have fun. No powerleveling. I have learned so much about my role in a group - dependent on the makeup, size, etc. How to find my way around. Where to get things.
If I had been powerleveled to 30 or 50, I believe I would have given up on the game already out of frustration when sent out on my own to group with other players at that level and knowing nada.
Would I accept the powerlevel of a Shammie on another server now. Possibly as I know a little more about the class. But a lot of the fun is in the learning.
I started on one server, a Beastlord, with a high level friend who kept pushing the powerleveling. Sending me, plat in hand to get temp, etc and then standing there helping me solo reds. Kill, Kill, Kill. This lasted about a week. I wasnt getting to do any of my newbie quests (so what if they are lame you learn your way around). I wasnt learning how to work in a group when I was logged in on my own. And I wasnt having a lot of fun.
Switched to server with friends who have played for many years but recently returned to a new server, for a fresh start. No money for twinking. We all started together just to have fun. No powerleveling. I have learned so much about my role in a group - dependent on the makeup, size, etc. How to find my way around. Where to get things.
If I had been powerleveled to 30 or 50, I believe I would have given up on the game already out of frustration when sent out on my own to group with other players at that level and knowing nada.
Would I accept the powerlevel of a Shammie on another server now. Possibly as I know a little more about the class. But a lot of the fun is in the learning.
I've never accepted power leveling for any of my characters.
I have a mid level monk (52) among other characters, and he has never even asked for a SoW, Heal, or Port. It's just don't think a monk should do this. And yes, most folks don't get it. Monk is my oldest, but not highest character (Pre Kunark).
My monk gave each of the other characters 100pp to start off, with no other help.
This is a game, not a contest. I play to forget my problems for a while, why rush? :-)
I have a mid level monk (52) among other characters, and he has never even asked for a SoW, Heal, or Port. It's just don't think a monk should do this. And yes, most folks don't get it. Monk is my oldest, but not highest character (Pre Kunark).
My monk gave each of the other characters 100pp to start off, with no other help.
This is a game, not a contest. I play to forget my problems for a while, why rush? :-)
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