Just saw that one of the melee changes now being implemented is new melee hit point regen rates..
I have no objections to this.. I am glad for warriors, rogues and such that they will not have to wait so long to get their hit points back.. BUT that was one of the main reasons I started a paladin..
I gave up being as good a melee as a warrior so I could heal my self in down times.. Now I feel less and less like I have a special role to fill..
I am not as good a tank as a warrior, can not heal anywhere near as good as a cleric, druid or even a shaman.. What is the role for me now?? Every class should have some area where they really shine.. Where do I??
I do not want to sound bitter, but i just feel a little usless these days.. I am glad I have an alt cleric and shaman.. Guess it is time to make one of these my mains.. and leave my pally for special occasions..
Edited, Fri Apr 30 04:04:19 2004 by thurvok
Edited, Fri Apr 30 04:05:14 2004 by thurvok
Edited, Fri Apr 30 04:06:10 2004 by thurvok
- Forums
- EverQuest
- General Discussion
- So why play Paladins now???
So why play Paladins now???Follow
1. We are still the best puller's for mobs under 56
2. We can still back up heal when the mobs reach 56 since we are post 60 by then and our group and direct heals have become in the 1k+ range by then <group:660, direct:1125 at 61>
3. We hold aggro far better than a same equiped tank and therefore unless against a raid target we are most likely still a prefered tank.
4. Hit point Regen in no way equates to self healing, its not the same thing, in the same way as you wouldn't use Chloroplast as a heal.
2. We can still back up heal when the mobs reach 56 since we are post 60 by then and our group and direct heals have become in the 1k+ range by then <group:660, direct:1125 at 61>
3. We hold aggro far better than a same equiped tank and therefore unless against a raid target we are most likely still a prefered tank.
4. Hit point Regen in no way equates to self healing, its not the same thing, in the same way as you wouldn't use Chloroplast as a heal.
Well I am level 59 so my pulling days are over..
I have been learning how to fight in POV lately and DAMN!! If I GET agro over the tank in the group at RCY/LCY I die FAST, unless MOB is slowed..
Even my healing is pretty bad considering how fast it is needed there when things start to go wrong...
Lately I throw up an LFG flag and I see tumbleweeds roll by and crickets chrip while I wait for a response..
It is going to be a long painful crawl to 61 I feel.. when maybe then I can start to feel useful again..
Whats your Ac/hit points Thurvok? i would say that either it's 1 on 3 things
1. they are a little low
2. your fighting in Inner where you need a 60+ tank <class not important>
3. The healer didn't like you much.
When i fought inner yesterday the cleric was pulsehealing on pull and that seemd to make all the difference, it allowed me to chain stun to keep aggro and that allowed the Shammy to slow without fear as soon as my first stun landed.
1. they are a little low
2. your fighting in Inner where you need a 60+ tank <class not important>
3. The healer didn't like you much.
When i fought inner yesterday the cleric was pulsehealing on pull and that seemd to make all the difference, it allowed me to chain stun to keep aggro and that allowed the Shammy to slow without fear as soon as my first stun landed.
With virtue and shammy buffs my health peaks around 5300 and AC a little over 1200..
I did get into a group at LCY the other day and did real well.. we had me.. wizzie, ranger, enchanter, shammy, and cleric..
I would pull a crystal gollem, but did not engage right away.. Wizzie rooted, ranger snared, shammy and enchanter debuffed it.. then I engaged. Doing that I never died.. had enchanter pacify a few times to make sure we only fought 1 golem at a time.. but getting groups that nice is rare..
I did get into a group at LCY the other day and did real well.. we had me.. wizzie, ranger, enchanter, shammy, and cleric..
I would pull a crystal gollem, but did not engage right away.. Wizzie rooted, ranger snared, shammy and enchanter debuffed it.. then I engaged. Doing that I never died.. had enchanter pacify a few times to make sure we only fought 1 golem at a time.. but getting groups that nice is rare..
Indeed, I wouldn't worry to much Thurvok, 59 is like spending an afternoon at the dentists anyway.
That said 60 goes by so fast you won't notice and at 61 you get those 60+ LDoN groups that look down thier nose at you now.
That said 60 goes by so fast you won't notice and at 61 you get those 60+ LDoN groups that look down thier nose at you now.
Increasing regen rates for melee classes while sitting is going to have only a beneficial effect on those people who will solo regardless of their class. Instead of taking 10 minutes to recover after soloing a blue, they will only have 5 minutes to vacuum the house or read magazines between pulls.
Brenlo posted this on the Sony Forums Melee Downtime Changes:
As far as what changed, all classes will regen hit points faster when sitting. However, it will have the greatest impact on those with more hit points.
Brenlo
I haven't seen the actual regen rate specified, but I'm going to expect it to be more than 2 and less than 10. No melee character in a group is going to care if he regens 50 more HP per minute when there is someone there to toss heals around.
This sounds to me like it is going to be more of a bonus to solo necromancers and shaman who convert HP to mana.
Brenlo posted this on the Sony Forums Melee Downtime Changes:
As far as what changed, all classes will regen hit points faster when sitting. However, it will have the greatest impact on those with more hit points.
Brenlo
I haven't seen the actual regen rate specified, but I'm going to expect it to be more than 2 and less than 10. No melee character in a group is going to care if he regens 50 more HP per minute when there is someone there to toss heals around.
This sounds to me like it is going to be more of a bonus to solo necromancers and shaman who convert HP to mana.
I do believe that necromancers and shamans will be the only classes ecstatic about this regen. Anything to help counteract lich and cannibalize is good.
Being able to willingly heal during your downtimes still blows away the non-healers. It's been a long time since I've seen a soloist warrior, and with good reason. It's just too much HP to regen alone. As was said above, 50 more hp a minute isn't an extraordinary difference when you have anywhere from 1k-5k health.
I doubt this will be anything terribly impressive. You'll probably find fairly quickly that your ability to heal still puts you miles ahead of a solo warrior. Lay on hands can save the day, and you can be an alright secondary healer.
Being able to willingly heal during your downtimes still blows away the non-healers. It's been a long time since I've seen a soloist warrior, and with good reason. It's just too much HP to regen alone. As was said above, 50 more hp a minute isn't an extraordinary difference when you have anywhere from 1k-5k health.
I doubt this will be anything terribly impressive. You'll probably find fairly quickly that your ability to heal still puts you miles ahead of a solo warrior. Lay on hands can save the day, and you can be an alright secondary healer.
5300 hps is a bit low to be tanking in PoV. 59 is a ***** of a level for any class but especially pallys. Too high for POI, POJ, POD, still too low to tank in POS/POV. Really picks back up at 62 though. I think Paladins are still the preferred tank in a xp group (in bot, tactics, HoH).
Raid wise, we're delegated to group heals, cures, maybe (just maybe) off-tanking. Which really is fine by me. If you wanna tank the biggest, baddest raid mobs, then make a warrior.
As far as pulling, I did so much of it for the last 40 levels or so, i'm glad to give those duties over to someone else. Our stuns are priceless (just wish we had one to work on mobs above 65).
Granted I'm not in a guild that raids GoD, so I don't personally know the issues pally's are having there.
Raid wise, we're delegated to group heals, cures, maybe (just maybe) off-tanking. Which really is fine by me. If you wanna tank the biggest, baddest raid mobs, then make a warrior.
As far as pulling, I did so much of it for the last 40 levels or so, i'm glad to give those duties over to someone else. Our stuns are priceless (just wish we had one to work on mobs above 65).
Granted I'm not in a guild that raids GoD, so I don't personally know the issues pally's are having there.
Well, I have read what the regen difference was at lvl 25 (the testbuffed lvl) for monks. The difference amounted to almost a 2hp/tic increase... at lvl 25. +2hp extra? That means nearly nothing.
These days for lvl 60+ regen really means nothing at all. When you get hit for 300-600 once every 5-6 seconds or so (not counting triples/quads or procs) what difference is even the max worn regen going to make (35/tic)? Regen means nothing after lvl 60... so this change really doesn't help at all. Doesn't really matter how much they boost sitting regen truthfully. The only melee class that can solo (pure melee) is monks, and usually we only solo lt blue conned mobs. A normal xp group lvl mob couldn't be soloed by any pure melee, so downtime help means very little... we would die before we reached downtime.
Last point about this regen change... unless it's faster than bandaging, people still won't sit to heal on downtime... bandaging is faster, and you're not sitting when you bandage...
As to your question about playing a paladin anymore, groups pick up pallys to tank. You're right that most groups in PoValor want a tank that has at least 6khp after buffs (meaning a little over 4khp unbuffed). I personally love paladin tanks as a monk. Last night in PoV we had a 65 paladin tanking on the east wall up top, and that was quite possibly the fastest xp I've ever gotten in PoV, almost faster than BoT. Chain pulled for a few hours straight, no break, and paladin had agro from the start to finish of every fight. The warrior that picked up after he left couldn't maintain that agro, and I've had SK tanks that couldn't keep agro as well. I think as far as holding agro paladins have the top rung of the ladder....
These days for lvl 60+ regen really means nothing at all. When you get hit for 300-600 once every 5-6 seconds or so (not counting triples/quads or procs) what difference is even the max worn regen going to make (35/tic)? Regen means nothing after lvl 60... so this change really doesn't help at all. Doesn't really matter how much they boost sitting regen truthfully. The only melee class that can solo (pure melee) is monks, and usually we only solo lt blue conned mobs. A normal xp group lvl mob couldn't be soloed by any pure melee, so downtime help means very little... we would die before we reached downtime.
Last point about this regen change... unless it's faster than bandaging, people still won't sit to heal on downtime... bandaging is faster, and you're not sitting when you bandage...
As to your question about playing a paladin anymore, groups pick up pallys to tank. You're right that most groups in PoValor want a tank that has at least 6khp after buffs (meaning a little over 4khp unbuffed). I personally love paladin tanks as a monk. Last night in PoV we had a 65 paladin tanking on the east wall up top, and that was quite possibly the fastest xp I've ever gotten in PoV, almost faster than BoT. Chain pulled for a few hours straight, no break, and paladin had agro from the start to finish of every fight. The warrior that picked up after he left couldn't maintain that agro, and I've had SK tanks that couldn't keep agro as well. I think as far as holding agro paladins have the top rung of the ladder....
I play a 65 Ranger.
A Pally is a good puller in indoor areas, places where a Druid or Ranger cannot Harmoney the mobs.
Also, a Pally is a very good tank with their chain stuns, root, etc.
I almost quit the game at level 52 because I could not get a group. I got one group about every 5 days of looking lol.
But at 60+ the game changes.
When you are 65 with 70+AA you will look back and be glad you made a Pally.
All classes are good if played well.
Thats my 2cp.
A Pally is a good puller in indoor areas, places where a Druid or Ranger cannot Harmoney the mobs.
Also, a Pally is a very good tank with their chain stuns, root, etc.
I almost quit the game at level 52 because I could not get a group. I got one group about every 5 days of looking lol.
But at 60+ the game changes.
When you are 65 with 70+AA you will look back and be glad you made a Pally.
All classes are good if played well.
Thats my 2cp.
Quote:
Every class should have some area where they really shine.. Where do I??
I think this is really the core issue. Hybrids were never supposed to have an area that they really shine. By definition they are a blending of classes. They give up superiority for versatility. Some of the classes in EQ have been so incrediblly unbalanced for so long that I think some people have forgotten this. Pallys were never meant to be better tanks than warriors nor better healers than clerics. The Idea was for them to be a whole lot better healer than warriors and a whole lot better tank than clerics.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Thurvok, you do need to do something about your AC and HP, they are too low for a Knight at your level, that is Ranger type numbers. With Virtue and Shammy I have over 5,500 HP and close on 1300 AC, and I can tank in PoV for about as long as Weaponshield lasts, 
Just because you are too low level to tank in a zone and your gear isn't very good at all doesn't mean your class sucks. My permagroup when I was leveling my warrior had a paladin in it, he had about 6.1 or 6.2khp fully buffed at 59. He had one piece of takish-hiz plate, one piece of miragul's plate, two pieces of ornate, and the rest was a mixture of LDoN drops, and bazaar bought stuff. He still wasn't the best choice for a valor tank because of his level. You did not tank paludal very well when you first went there, you did not tank innovation very well when you first went there, and you will not tank valor very well when you first go there. PoValor is a zone designed for people who can pass the trials in Justice.
Added melee hp regen will not effect your standing in regards to warriors in the least bit, because you will get the added regeneration too. If you can't find a group, start one. If you start one and realize, my god, there are not enough slowers or cleric lfg! Perhaps then you will realize that everyone has trouble with getting a group if they aren't in a guild and have no/few friends. (well, besides clerics and slowers...) and that there are just too many tanks for the amount of clerics/slowers generally.
edit: I swear I used paragraphs!
Edited, Fri Apr 30 13:07:09 2004 by czaemon
Added melee hp regen will not effect your standing in regards to warriors in the least bit, because you will get the added regeneration too. If you can't find a group, start one. If you start one and realize, my god, there are not enough slowers or cleric lfg! Perhaps then you will realize that everyone has trouble with getting a group if they aren't in a guild and have no/few friends. (well, besides clerics and slowers...) and that there are just too many tanks for the amount of clerics/slowers generally.
edit: I swear I used paragraphs!
Edited, Fri Apr 30 13:07:09 2004 by czaemon
One other thing to realize, from what i have seen POV Gollems are really tough mobs, and are a great barometer of how well you can tank. In my opinion they are tougher then many of the mobs in the lower level of BOT.
Also I would really work on my armor class if I were you. A good rule of thumb for Unbuffed AC is abot 20ac per level. So at level 60 you should have a 1200 AC Unbuffed. I am not certain but I think you can use some mithril armour which really isnt to bad, until you can raid for some better stuff, or get ornate patterns.
Also I would really work on my armor class if I were you. A good rule of thumb for Unbuffed AC is abot 20ac per level. So at level 60 you should have a 1200 AC Unbuffed. I am not certain but I think you can use some mithril armour which really isnt to bad, until you can raid for some better stuff, or get ornate patterns.
I don't claim to be an expert, but I thought paladins were good tanks because they were good at holding aggro.
Speaking as a wizard who has never played a paladin, I think 59 pallys get more groups than 59 wizards. It could be a grass is always greener on the other side of the fence thing though.
Thurvok and I are friends, and it seems to me if we just had a 58+ shaman to group with us we could do pretty well. We just don't know any 58+ shamans.
The other Paladins I know seem to be very happy once they get to 60, so hopefully Thurvok will be the same.
Do paladins get fewer hit points than warriors?
I also like having a paladin in the group because Brells stacks with most other stuff, doesn't it?
It seems that every class brings something to the groups I'm in.
Speaking as a wizard who has never played a paladin, I think 59 pallys get more groups than 59 wizards. It could be a grass is always greener on the other side of the fence thing though.
Thurvok and I are friends, and it seems to me if we just had a 58+ shaman to group with us we could do pretty well. We just don't know any 58+ shamans.
The other Paladins I know seem to be very happy once they get to 60, so hopefully Thurvok will be the same.
Do paladins get fewer hit points than warriors?
I also like having a paladin in the group because Brells stacks with most other stuff, doesn't it?
It seems that every class brings something to the groups I'm in.
My friend has a paladin that is level 52. He can't get planes group because of his crappy AC. What does it cost to get you AC to 1200+?
Mines 1235 with Virtue and my gear is at the 200k mark or thier abouts <look at my toons if you want click on my name.>
HP and AC is a bit low, but not terribly so IMO. What's really killing you is the level. At level 65, I'm sitting in the 6.3k hp 1300AC range in most groups (buff dependant of course), and have no problems tanking golems all day long (although I prefer BoT since the exp is a bit better there once you get a good group going). I'm about average from what I've seen. I've grouped with "uber" guild rangers who have higher HP/AC then my (by a lot! :( ), and I've grouped with warriors who have noticably lower HP/AC then me. There's always going to be a variation, and it will be more pronounced as you get into your 60s (since all folks have to do past that point is work on gear and AAs).
Heh. I was in an open MB raid a couple weeks ago (yeah. I usually avoid open raids, but I wasn't doing anything else at the time). At one point, the RL was asking for tanks to read off their hp/ac. Apparently, a TMO tank was "slumming". Most folks are rattling off figures in the 6-7k range, with a few hitting 8+k. This guy pulls out a 11k+ hp figure... Yeah. He tanked... :)
My point is to not worry too much about getting into a ***** competition with other folks. There will always be someone bigger/badder then you (and there will be some worse as well). Just focus on what you can do, and play to your strengths.
As a paladin, you will generally not have as good an AC/HP as an equivalent warrior. Just acept that. Your strength is two things:
1. You can provide some buff/heal utility to the group. Not a lot, but every bit counts. Drop a HoT on yourself right before the pull so that the cleric doesn't have to (and it'll mitigate the damage that unslowed mob is doing to you for the first 10 seconds of the fight). Heal up folks between pulls. Drop your brells line on everyone for some extra hp. Be ready to drop your LoH on someone when they get a bit too much agro, or an add runs over and whacks them. There are many many ways a paladin can assist a group beyond just sitting there and hitting the mob.
2. Your stuns are your most powerful asset. I'll say that again: Your stuns are your most powerful asset. They do two things. They allow you to get agro very fast, and they will stun the mob for a set number of seconds. In PoP, the most critical part of the fight is the first 10 seconds, when the mob is in camp and is beating on the tank, but it has not been slowed/debuffed yet. This is where the paladin shines. We can do something that no other tank class can. We can utterly stop the mob from doing damage during that first 10 seconds. Pull with a low level stun. Drop a higher level on (that'll work) as it arrives in camp. Follow up with a second one timed to hit before the first wears off. Done right, you will take *zero* damage from the mob until after it gets slowed, and you'll have generated enough agro such that the mob will stick to you for the rest of the fight without any more work required.
59 is an akward level though. You are a bit high for PoJ and PoI, and PoN/PoD are getting a bit sluggish as well. The other problem is level ranges of mobs as they affect your stuns. I think I've got these right, but I'm going by memory so some of them might be wrong.
55 and lower:
Cease, Desist, Stun, Holy might, Force.
61 and lower:
Force of Akera, Quellious' word of tranquility
65 and lower:
Force of Akilae, Quellious' word of Serenity.
68 and lower:
Divine Stun (AA ability).
The problem is that until you hit level 62, you cannot stun mobs that are 62 or higher. Some of the cave mobs and the occasional crawler or spider up top in PoV will be below 61, but pretty much everything else will be higher. If you are at any of the castle camps, pretty much nothing will be stunnable. Also, those mobs hit hard enough that you'll get pretty smeared during those first 10 seconds. Once you hit level 62, you should be able to start tanking there and be really effective.
I would suggest restricting yourself to tanking in caves groups if you can. If you do go fight golems, being the MT may not be the best idea. You *can* do it, but your group will really be better off with a tank even just a few levels higher. Of course, since paladins generally have pretty sucky DPS, it's a bit harder to get a group if your tanking ability really isn't up to par. Even if you aren't MT, there's an expectation that you're going to be able to offtank if needed (or take over if the MT goes down). That's why groups get a second tank class.
You can still get decent exp in other zones if PoV isn't working for you. PoN docks is still pretty decent exp (it'll get you past the hump you're on). PoD castle is good exp. I just personally found pulling there to be a nightmare. If you can get a group with a bard or ranger pulling, you can tank pretty well. Another alternative (which may or may not be feasable for you), is PoH. A level 59 paladin can certainly tank there. Even the entrance area is pretty good exp at that level, and pretty much all the mobs there are under level 55 (meaning you can do all sorts of nasty things to them). There's enough of a ZEM, and the mobs are wimpy enough (in relation to PoP mobs), that I've sometimes gotten better exp rate there then in PoP. Kill rate is just that much faster. I ground through 59 and 60 in PoH and that worked very well for me. The only problem with it is that you're going to need someone to port you up (and you'll need a port out). Not something a pally can do on his lonesome, but maybe try getting a guild group together. It's a lot of fun...
In the same vein. Veksar is great as well. Revamped at the same time as PoH, and about the same level range (and general coolness). Great loot. Great groups. Well designed zone. And without the super heavy hitting that is a staple of PoP mobs (although they aren't pushovers either). Just another zone to think about. Exp is good there as well...
One more thing. Kinda off topic a bit, but someone mentioned pulling golems in PoV. Both castle camps (we call them WC and EC for west castle and east castle), have a set of golem spawns. With the exception of the rock way in the back of EC that has 3 golems close together, every single golem spawn is out of social range with every other golem spawn. You should be able to single pull golems all day long in WC. Once you break the spawns at the rock area in EC, you should be able to single pull those as well. You do have to figure out the correct order to pull them, but once you do that, pulling in those camps becomes just a matter of grabbing each golem as it respawns, pulling it to camp, killing it, then grabbing the next one. There should be no issues with pulling there.
Heh. I was in an open MB raid a couple weeks ago (yeah. I usually avoid open raids, but I wasn't doing anything else at the time). At one point, the RL was asking for tanks to read off their hp/ac. Apparently, a TMO tank was "slumming". Most folks are rattling off figures in the 6-7k range, with a few hitting 8+k. This guy pulls out a 11k+ hp figure... Yeah. He tanked... :)
My point is to not worry too much about getting into a ***** competition with other folks. There will always be someone bigger/badder then you (and there will be some worse as well). Just focus on what you can do, and play to your strengths.
As a paladin, you will generally not have as good an AC/HP as an equivalent warrior. Just acept that. Your strength is two things:
1. You can provide some buff/heal utility to the group. Not a lot, but every bit counts. Drop a HoT on yourself right before the pull so that the cleric doesn't have to (and it'll mitigate the damage that unslowed mob is doing to you for the first 10 seconds of the fight). Heal up folks between pulls. Drop your brells line on everyone for some extra hp. Be ready to drop your LoH on someone when they get a bit too much agro, or an add runs over and whacks them. There are many many ways a paladin can assist a group beyond just sitting there and hitting the mob.
2. Your stuns are your most powerful asset. I'll say that again: Your stuns are your most powerful asset. They do two things. They allow you to get agro very fast, and they will stun the mob for a set number of seconds. In PoP, the most critical part of the fight is the first 10 seconds, when the mob is in camp and is beating on the tank, but it has not been slowed/debuffed yet. This is where the paladin shines. We can do something that no other tank class can. We can utterly stop the mob from doing damage during that first 10 seconds. Pull with a low level stun. Drop a higher level on (that'll work) as it arrives in camp. Follow up with a second one timed to hit before the first wears off. Done right, you will take *zero* damage from the mob until after it gets slowed, and you'll have generated enough agro such that the mob will stick to you for the rest of the fight without any more work required.
59 is an akward level though. You are a bit high for PoJ and PoI, and PoN/PoD are getting a bit sluggish as well. The other problem is level ranges of mobs as they affect your stuns. I think I've got these right, but I'm going by memory so some of them might be wrong.
55 and lower:
Cease, Desist, Stun, Holy might, Force.
61 and lower:
Force of Akera, Quellious' word of tranquility
65 and lower:
Force of Akilae, Quellious' word of Serenity.
68 and lower:
Divine Stun (AA ability).
The problem is that until you hit level 62, you cannot stun mobs that are 62 or higher. Some of the cave mobs and the occasional crawler or spider up top in PoV will be below 61, but pretty much everything else will be higher. If you are at any of the castle camps, pretty much nothing will be stunnable. Also, those mobs hit hard enough that you'll get pretty smeared during those first 10 seconds. Once you hit level 62, you should be able to start tanking there and be really effective.
I would suggest restricting yourself to tanking in caves groups if you can. If you do go fight golems, being the MT may not be the best idea. You *can* do it, but your group will really be better off with a tank even just a few levels higher. Of course, since paladins generally have pretty sucky DPS, it's a bit harder to get a group if your tanking ability really isn't up to par. Even if you aren't MT, there's an expectation that you're going to be able to offtank if needed (or take over if the MT goes down). That's why groups get a second tank class.
You can still get decent exp in other zones if PoV isn't working for you. PoN docks is still pretty decent exp (it'll get you past the hump you're on). PoD castle is good exp. I just personally found pulling there to be a nightmare. If you can get a group with a bard or ranger pulling, you can tank pretty well. Another alternative (which may or may not be feasable for you), is PoH. A level 59 paladin can certainly tank there. Even the entrance area is pretty good exp at that level, and pretty much all the mobs there are under level 55 (meaning you can do all sorts of nasty things to them). There's enough of a ZEM, and the mobs are wimpy enough (in relation to PoP mobs), that I've sometimes gotten better exp rate there then in PoP. Kill rate is just that much faster. I ground through 59 and 60 in PoH and that worked very well for me. The only problem with it is that you're going to need someone to port you up (and you'll need a port out). Not something a pally can do on his lonesome, but maybe try getting a guild group together. It's a lot of fun...
In the same vein. Veksar is great as well. Revamped at the same time as PoH, and about the same level range (and general coolness). Great loot. Great groups. Well designed zone. And without the super heavy hitting that is a staple of PoP mobs (although they aren't pushovers either). Just another zone to think about. Exp is good there as well...
One more thing. Kinda off topic a bit, but someone mentioned pulling golems in PoV. Both castle camps (we call them WC and EC for west castle and east castle), have a set of golem spawns. With the exception of the rock way in the back of EC that has 3 golems close together, every single golem spawn is out of social range with every other golem spawn. You should be able to single pull golems all day long in WC. Once you break the spawns at the rock area in EC, you should be able to single pull those as well. You do have to figure out the correct order to pull them, but once you do that, pulling in those camps becomes just a matter of grabbing each golem as it respawns, pulling it to camp, killing it, then grabbing the next one. There should be no issues with pulling there.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
I play a Paladin because the ideal of what a Paladin stands for appeals to me.
I can always get a group or adventure. A warrior or Beserker may well outclass me as a MT on raw stats. But I bring extra dimensions to a group. I can help with CC, I can hold aggro, and I can heal even in the heat of combat.
I can rez if the Cleric goes down. I can buff. I have spells which cause my weapons to proc against both living and Undead.
One of my favorite roles is being SA. It allows me the freedom and flexibility to do more than just deal and take damamge.
Don't play a Paladin because they make the "best tank". Play a Paladin because you enjoy the character class and want to be in an environment where versatility can make or break a group.
And as others have said, once you hit 65 and have 70 or so well spent AA's under your belt, you can shine. In your own way. And those who know and understand how this game works will appreciate what a Paladin can do.
I can always get a group or adventure. A warrior or Beserker may well outclass me as a MT on raw stats. But I bring extra dimensions to a group. I can help with CC, I can hold aggro, and I can heal even in the heat of combat.
I can rez if the Cleric goes down. I can buff. I have spells which cause my weapons to proc against both living and Undead.
One of my favorite roles is being SA. It allows me the freedom and flexibility to do more than just deal and take damamge.
Don't play a Paladin because they make the "best tank". Play a Paladin because you enjoy the character class and want to be in an environment where versatility can make or break a group.
And as others have said, once you hit 65 and have 70 or so well spent AA's under your belt, you can shine. In your own way. And those who know and understand how this game works will appreciate what a Paladin can do.
Hmmm... Honestly, I think paladins "shine" quite a bit prior to being level 65 with 70+ AA points. However, we don't shine all the time (but what class does?). I would say that paladins are just another tank for most of the game (first 40 levels, there aren't a whole lot of differences between the plate melee classes). Your spells will offset the slightly lower HPs you'll have when compared to a warrior, but it's all good really.
From about 45 to 55, paladins are one of the most preferred group tanks. That's because they start getting a really good line of stuns, and they gain the ability to pacify mobs. This allows the paladin to be a one-stop shop. He can pull and tank, allowing the rest of the group to concentrate on DPS to the mob, all while genrating enough agro to allow them to do that DPS without fear.
From 55 to 61, paladins really wane. We're past our peak for pacify, and more and more mobs aren't affected by our stuns. This was the hardest level range for me. You can still do really well in tier1 up to about 58 since paci and stuns will work on most mobs, but you will see a gradual reduction during those levels. From 58 to 61, it's *really* hard to be effective at all in PoP as a paladin.
From 62 onwards, everything just gets better and better. You get your first stun that works on mobs up to 65. You never get pacify ability again, but that's not as big of a deal (plenty of other folks to pull). You also start to get those nice big post 60 heals, so you're actually effective as a patch healer now. Your role shifts a bit, but overall from 62 on, groups will want you.
You just happen to be right in the middle of the worst set of levels for paladins. Hang in there. It's a tough grind, but will be well worth it in a few levels.
From about 45 to 55, paladins are one of the most preferred group tanks. That's because they start getting a really good line of stuns, and they gain the ability to pacify mobs. This allows the paladin to be a one-stop shop. He can pull and tank, allowing the rest of the group to concentrate on DPS to the mob, all while genrating enough agro to allow them to do that DPS without fear.
From 55 to 61, paladins really wane. We're past our peak for pacify, and more and more mobs aren't affected by our stuns. This was the hardest level range for me. You can still do really well in tier1 up to about 58 since paci and stuns will work on most mobs, but you will see a gradual reduction during those levels. From 58 to 61, it's *really* hard to be effective at all in PoP as a paladin.
From 62 onwards, everything just gets better and better. You get your first stun that works on mobs up to 65. You never get pacify ability again, but that's not as big of a deal (plenty of other folks to pull). You also start to get those nice big post 60 heals, so you're actually effective as a patch healer now. Your role shifts a bit, but overall from 62 on, groups will want you.
You just happen to be right in the middle of the worst set of levels for paladins. Hang in there. It's a tough grind, but will be well worth it in a few levels.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
I want to thank you for all your advice and encourgement.. I will just grit my teeth and grind thru to 61.. ( half way from 59 to 60 now), because not am I just a paladin, but I am a DWARF paladin.. and we know how to persever!!
One thing I am noticing is that my gear tends to lag behind other pallys at my level for a few reasons..
1) This is my 1st character ( I stated playing in October ) and do not have access to hand-me downs from other characters or cash..
2) My play time is limited.. so when I do play I hate to farm, unless I can get some XP at the same time..
Therefore I am poor :( A lot of the stuff I do have comes from LDON's..
3) Athough I could spent $100.00 or so to buy plat.. I refuse to do that.. Hell! If I felt that I HAD to that to be viable I would quit the game!
With that in mind I hope to start fighting in places like Veskar, Selibis and Temple of Droga where I can get decent XP as well as loot.. Just that it is SOO hard to get a good group to do this due to my play schedule and few characters fighting there..
I will just press ahead and get there as best I can.. I am encourged to think once I clear level 60 things will go smoother..
Thanks again for all your good advice..
Baron Thurvok Sturmovik (Povar)
At the razorfiends a common tactic is to aggro-kite where noone tanks. Instead a druid or necro gets aggro and others hit mob from behind so healers not really neccesary. (Although the kiter will need heals from getting hit sometimes)
This camp can shoot you to 62-63 fast. keep heals memmed to help
group members that get hit and dont stun or taunt.
Theres also an aggro-kite group in HoH by the graveyard
(left at zone-in)after you lvl up
gbaji is worth listening to so take his advice hes been a big help to me for a long time.
btw- gbaji you have a majelo? id love to see your paladin as i play a HIE paladin too.
This camp can shoot you to 62-63 fast. keep heals memmed to help
group members that get hit and dont stun or taunt.
Theres also an aggro-kite group in HoH by the graveyard
(left at zone-in)after you lvl up
gbaji is worth listening to so take his advice hes been a big help to me for a long time.
btw- gbaji you have a majelo? id love to see your paladin as i play a HIE paladin too.
I've seen a lot of frustration from Paladins recently, and honestly I can't understand why.
True, they're not getting the same new abilities as warriors are.
They do, however, still hold aggro better than anyone else in the game.
Their HP is slightly less than warriors...but for a tank it's all about gear...Pallies CAN have MORE HP than warriors, if they have better gear. And even that doesn't make a whole lot of difference...there is a pally in my guild with roughly the same level gear as my warrior, and only about 100 hp or so behind (fully raid buffed - with only "normal" buffs he beats me because of his own buff)....with better AC.
Even warriors love pallies because pallies can cast Brell's, which stacks with Virtue and Fo7.
Paladins are AWESOME dps against undead mobs.
LoH can save the day..and so can the group heals a pally can use.
Paladins can rez the cleric if everything goes wrong...
Heck, I've been battle-rezzed by pallies in raids when the clerics couldn't take the time out of the cheal-rotation to rezz me.
And the list goes on....there are still PLENTY of reasons to play a paladin.
True, they're not getting the same new abilities as warriors are.
They do, however, still hold aggro better than anyone else in the game.
Their HP is slightly less than warriors...but for a tank it's all about gear...Pallies CAN have MORE HP than warriors, if they have better gear. And even that doesn't make a whole lot of difference...there is a pally in my guild with roughly the same level gear as my warrior, and only about 100 hp or so behind (fully raid buffed - with only "normal" buffs he beats me because of his own buff)....with better AC.
Even warriors love pallies because pallies can cast Brell's, which stacks with Virtue and Fo7.
Paladins are AWESOME dps against undead mobs.
LoH can save the day..and so can the group heals a pally can use.
Paladins can rez the cleric if everything goes wrong...
Heck, I've been battle-rezzed by pallies in raids when the clerics couldn't take the time out of the cheal-rotation to rezz me.
And the list goes on....there are still PLENTY of reasons to play a paladin.
thurvok wrote:
2) My play time is limited.. so when I do play I hate to farm, unless I can get some XP at the same time..
Therefore I am poor :( A lot of the stuff I do have comes from LDON's..
Baron Thurvok Sturmovik (Povar)
Try to get a group to go spend a bit of time in Plane of Mischief with you. You will find some great Pally upgrades there, good fun and some experience.
In LDoN missions, I love having a paladin MT because of the stuns - especially in dungeons with lots of casters. Sure you can have your cleric or chanter stun, but (1) they usually have limited mana available and (2) the more stunners, the better. At some points, your cleric may have only one "dd" stun (and maybe one aa stun) which will actually effect the mobs you are facing - and the repop time on them is not so great. If the stun is resisted or if it is launched too soon, you're screwed. My thought is you need at least 2 viable stunners to prevent most mobs from casting a gate/cheal. Three is prefered.
All three tanking classes are very desirable. It's not like when we are looking for a tank we pass over a paladin because the others are any better. (I suppose your milage my vary at the very high end game - I don't have experience there).
It's not like the bad old days. The classes are pretty well balanced.
All three tanking classes are very desirable. It's not like when we are looking for a tank we pass over a paladin because the others are any better. (I suppose your milage my vary at the very high end game - I don't have experience there).
It's not like the bad old days. The classes are pretty well balanced.
Recent Visitors: 141
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (141)
- Forums
- EverQuest
- General Discussion
- So why play Paladins now???
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC