Old School what are your memories?Follow

Illuien, we seem to disagree on a fundamental level on a lot of things. You constantly point to things that I am fairly indifferent to, like new zones, new gear, and other new content in the game that has nothing to do with my argument about dummying down Everquest. If you put out a new expansion, of course you're going to have new gear and new zones, or else no one's going to buy the damned thing. However, Sony seems to have the idea that each successive expansion should make the race to 65 + 300AA easier in order to attract more people who'd not have the patience to play the game otherwise.

Some of the additions have been fairly innocuous, such as the AA system ... especially on servers like Firiona Vie and Stromm where the one-character limit made your future look pretty bleak once you'd reached 60 (pre-PoP). This I will give you, back then gear was the ONLY thing you could look forward to once your character had reached the top. The tradeskill interface is another fairly harmless addition, although it does somewhat cheapen the efforts of those who grandmastered the skills without the aid of it, but as you say, they're only clicks. I expect the market for tradeskilled goods are probably experiencing a glut at the moment, at least those whose materials can be vendor-bought. This is a small part of the game, however, and though I sympathize with those who did it "the hard way," it can't really be called unbalancing.

How does someone zooming from 1-65 affect how I play? Well, not much, honestly ... I'm a fairly insular gal and don't group much outside my circle of friends.

However, others are not so lucky, and have to rely on pickup groups to gain their levels. I got to see a bit of this leveling up my twink wizzie. I decided that since I had never played a wizard before, it might be good to participate in a few groups at various levels to get a feel for the class. I found that my mana and aggro management skills were awful, as I was used to playing utility classes and hadn't the faintest idea what judicious nuking was. Had I rocketted her to 65, as I very well could have given the resources available to me, I would have proved at best a poor addition to any group and at worst an outright hazard due to my lack of skill in the class.

In my time grouping with my wizard (pickup mostly) I have seen paladins who don't stun more than once in a battle, clerics who spam CHeal when the tank hits 70% and are oom every 3 mobs, various melee who insist on offtanking even with an enchanter present, breaking mezzes all over the place and stretching even the most skilled healer to their breaking point ... enchanters who don't mez "because it's a waste of mana," shaman who nuke before slowing or don't slow at all ... and any number of other basic mistakes which should have been made in the twenties and thirties and corrected, but weren't because these people did 1-25 in a day in newbie zone/Paludal and 25-35 in HHK in another day or two. Three days is NOT long enough to learn your abilities and duties nor develop a knack for using them to full potential.

As you go up in level, however, the risk to your group when you make stupid, uninformed mistakes goes up proportionally. PoP has dealt with this somewhat with the graveyards, but even that can be an inconvenience when you'd PREFER that your body stay put where you died but have no choice in the matter. There's also what I like to call "65 syndrome," which crops up when you make a suggestion to one of these fast-track levelers about how they might improve their gameplay (or might give the appearance they have any idea what the hell is going on) ... and you get the old, "WTF I'm 65, I know how to play "X" class, STFU."

In a nutshell, back then I can safely say that about 90% or more of level 60 (or 50 in Kunark) players knew at least all the basics of their class, and if it was a main they were likely to be talented players of that class. Did it suck spending hours in Sebilis and Karnor's and Velk's grinding your way to the top? Sure. However you were a lot more likely over those weeks and months to become a compentent player, if only by virtue of repetition.

It's amazing how much people whine about the game being bad now. If you don't like the game why don't you go play another one? It's really not that easy to get to level 65 with 700AAs these days. Even with PoP and lots of nice equipment. It's still very much a grind and one that can take up a ton of your time. You have to realize that some people actually have to work or go to school outside of EQ and can't spend months leveling in Sebilis and learing the optimal way to play thier character in a group.

I've tried other MMORPGs myself and I always come back to everquest.

Ulitma Online was the first RPG I ever played and I think about 20 minutes after I had played and gotten some materials together a group of people apeared out of nowhere, killed me, and took all my equipment.

The next game I played after everquest was Asheron's call 2. I couldn't get the hang of that game at all. I quit after about 1 week of playing.

Then I tried star wars galaxies. This one I played for a while. I ground out skills and finally became a bounty hunter. Took me a few months as I had to teach people to earn Grand master points. Then they nerfed bounty hunter to hell so I quit.

Back to everquest again. Lastly I tried Final Fantasy XI. Final Fantasy has always been one of my favorite games. I didn't like it much though as it was near imposible to solo.

Maybe some of you might like that aspect, but I prefer to be able to solo when I can't get a group and sometimes I just prefer not to deal with the headache a group can be.

Testing, 1 2 3

No no no!

I agree the world has changed, but even now you do not have to go this (terrible) rout.

Iluien (and Celeni & Babs), has always considered friends and grouping to be no. 1. (I posted once before that I naively came into the game believing it to be a role playing game, lol, I've never fully given up on that point of view). So other than periods of enforced soloing, I've always tried to get groups together, or join groups that had people I know in them.

I'm not trying to say that I have this vast network of friends in the game - far from it - just that I have made it an issue to concentrate on.

So my journey to 62 (yep dinged last night reflects everything I have "preached" on this board.

Began in GF at the orc camps, met up with some adveturesome people and went to Butcherblock, hunted bandits lizards and at the Chessboard. Went to Steamfont Mountains, Windmills first then Mino Caves (had to get a Mino Axe didn't I).

Then to Freeport via the boat - a great thrill I think its a pity they are no longer in the game, but understand fully their impracticality - after ooh and aahing over Freeport, went to EC, hunted Orc 1 to 3. Went through the tunnel - (ooh aah again) hunted Derv camp 1 - 3. Went to Oasis hunted Orc Road - met my first Barbarians - ooh aah, made friends with them. Went to WC hunted more Dervs, learned the way to Kithicor and got told about the wonders of Rivervale/Runnyeye/Karana and Qeynos.

Decided I hust had to go see for my self - talked Wizzy and Warrior friend in to going with me, ran through Kith, over the mountains, down through the goblin caves, through Beholders (warrior got killed by Mudmen) and into East Karana - where we all got killed first by some spider and then by some Gnoll. (Skipping the CR from Freeport story). Discovered North Karana - fell in love with it, but travelled on to Qeynos, just to see what it was.

(Somewhere in here we went to The Warrens a few times).

Went back to NK, hunted beetles and lion, progressed to gryphons, learned how to kite. Friends got tired of it and wanted to go to LoIO, I was too stubborn, they went I stayed. Learned how to solo. Eventually met new friends, went to HHK when friends were around, alternated with Runnyeye and Splitpaw.

(Somewhere in this time period went to Everfrost and began trying to hunt Mammoths)

Learned to hunt Crag Spiders in EK to sell the silk swatches to passing druids. Progressed to South Karana, hunted Centaurs and Aviacs, learned how to bow kite.

Began going to Sol A with guild started trying to do Ivy Etched quests. Did first Kedge Keep raid [rolleyes:]

Did Ivy Etched, began doing Kunark stuff with guild, tried Ragefire , started going to Sol B.

Went to Velious with wizzy friend to get the dragon teeth for the portals - saw my first Frost Giant Elites - went to Ry'Gor fort got some bits of Ry'Gor. Hated GD/EW/IC and went to Stonebrunt. Fell in love with the place - got stubborn again and refused to go to OT and DL/KC.

(Somtime here went to Droga and Nurga on and off).

Learned how to kite red mobs with bad pathing, , stayed in SB too long. Began raiding old Planes/The Hole.

Refused to go to Dawn Shroud

Eventually went to DL/CoM/BW/Skyfire. (And EJ and TT of course).

Began raiding Kael and building CoV faction.

Hunted Tenebrous/Scarlet Desert/The Grey/Mons Letalis

Began raiding HoT - UP, Griegs.

Raided Seb, Chardok, Kunark Dragons, Dragon Nec regularly.

Moved to Maidens Eye, stayed there too long. Moved to Fungus Grove, don't know why but liked the place and spent too much time there as well.

(Somewhere in here went to Dulak/Nadox etc a few times).

Began hunting low end PoP.

Started flagging for PoP, guild disintegrated. Went back to soloing - rebuilt friend list - began doing LDoN.

And here we are today - having another go at flagging PoP, doing LDoN, the fringes of Natimbi, revisiting the revamped old zones/planes, still plan on doing Sleepers/SSraa/Vex Thall/VP/NToV properly.

The only time I have been to LoIO was to go to Veksar and for keys. The only time I have been to PC was upon the release of Luclin and to go get an Ancient Sensate Eye for Babastina.

And that is the history of Iluien.

(Iluien has actually never been to Over There. Only ever been to Karnor's for guild raids).

This has taken me thre and a half years. I will post the days played for you all to roll around the floor laughing your butts off.

But I did it my way!

Edited, Tue May 4 23:21:46 2004 by Iluien

Being able to vendor mine In EC for stacks of HQ pelts, Bonechips, spider silks. (use make a Killing on that stuff)

Coming out of Befallen, Halfway dead and Dragoon Zilt waiting to pound you into the ground.

Wait ...

A person shouldn't have to spend time learning their class ...

But if they ***** up royally in a group and get everyone killed that's ok, because they're wasting 6 people's time now instead of their own?

You can't have it both ways. Failures on scripted events are timesinks, therefore stupid mistakes are timesinks, and for that matter anything that gets your entire group wiped is a timesink. Don't learn your class on my time, thanks.

I never said people had to spend all their time in Sebilis. That was just "the" place in Kunark because it had xp at 50 and loot. You could have gone to CoM, Karnor's, SolB -- hell, even SolA would take you to the mid 40s if you felt like killing metal gnomes. That's just the Kunark dungeons too; plenty of outdoor xp in Kunark as well at those levels. Velious too.

Despite the bad rap, most of the people I've met that have bought an ebayed character are people who are veterans of the game and generally know their posteriors from holes in the ground, by the way. Not all, but most, in my experience.

It's cool though, I'm exceptionally calm, I play EQ maybe once a week these days tops and on those days I don't play with people who think 3 weeks is enough time to learn to play the game. Just lucky I guess.

Iluien,

I see your viewpoint now more clearly. You obviously came up the 'old-school' way and now simply appreciate the ease of the game in some areas and changes that have been benefitial.

As I said before, I do not dislike the new game. I just feel that we had to have a different attitude back in the orignal game. Sme of the changes, while being beneficial to most of us who have already learned the game, have been detrimental to the community in the way it teaches new players.

WOW great thread, I can recall many warm feelings of first playing. My very first experience was in GFay...."How do I get out of this city? I keep falling off and dying." One week later I was finally told about the lever to the lift. About the same time I finally found out about the Bank and buying bags to carry more than 8 items. I sure wish EQ had a handbook that came with the game when you first bought it. One that explained the IN's and OUT's. Then the infamous " Casting SOW for Donation at Orc Lift" filled my text area. What was this SOW? Not to mention that you PAID 5pp per shot of it. Pfff paying for SOW, it was awsome. As time passed and I began to climb the ladder of levels, I began to tradeskill...making Stat rings for a minor profit, and then Banded Armor. Mainly armor for myself, since that was the best you could get unless you were UBER and had someone give you a Bloodstained Tunic, or Gator Vest from Oasis. Well these are just a few of my memories, I could go on for days, as many "old schoolers" could. I have seen the changes in the game for the better, but also feel that many of the best parts have been lost. If you make the game so much easier to advance, why even start off at lvl 1, or even just give players a start off of skills capped out at 200. I dont know, but to each is own, we all play for different reasons. To this day I still TRULY quest more than I do anything else. One day the Coldain Prayer Shawl will be mine.

Talissia Moonchyld
58 Animalist
Karana