End Game Class DesirabilityFollow

I have a 55 pally, a 55 shammie, and various other lower level alts. As I get higher, I've noticed the classes change quite a bit both in power and group desirability as they mature. Shammie for instance is very fun to play, but with a chanter in group, upper level groups often look past the shaman to higher DPS classes. Not to mention that a lot of mobs are unslowable which really cuts down on the shammie's usefullness.

Sooo, I was wondering what class is most needed and wanted in the high end (level 65) groups? Cleric and chanter obviously are necessary for any group at that level, so please omit them. Other than that, what class is most desired?

Thanks in advance!

IMHO, A good tank like your 55 pally is invaluable. Don't count your shammy out either, a shaman's buffs are what make them usefull. I'd even go as far as to say that a shaman increases a groups effectivness more than a chanty.

I can honestly say I have NEVER had a wet dream about anything related to everquest. That's just....ewww!

Thanks for your opinions guys. I'll stick with the shammie and see how the end game works out. It is more fun than I've had with any other class.

The chanter's are probably on a corpse run when the warrior screwed the taunt up again.

another thing you forgot to mention is that shammies are kings of slow unlike a chanter. Chanters only have 1 version of slow. Shammies have a variety Magic,poison and diseased based slow. Not to mention AOE slow. Im not saying that chanters cant slow but at high end shammies usually slow because chanter are limited to a magic based slow.

I can also agree that a lvl 65 shammy is more desired on the melee aspect because there buffs and haste more so with buffs than haste.

I'd like to add that shamans are always welcome in a group. Main reason is that the focus line of buffs stacks with everything, so not having a shaman means having less hp/AC (and a bunch of other stats) on your tank, regardless of what else you have in the group. Getting a slower in the same package just makes them hugely desirable.

My favorite combo is to have a cleric and a shaman in my group.
With those two, I have near raid level buffs in terms of what I care about (hp/ac). You can replace either of those with a druid for healing, but a druid by itself is kinda yukky from a buff point of view. Particularlly as a paladin tank, Pot9 is actually fewer hp/ac then my self buffs (which aren't that great by themselves). And the mana regen is mitigated since one of my self buffs that don't stack with pot9 is AoC, which is itself a mana regen buff (about half what pot9 gives, but still).


Course, if I've got a chanter, shaman, cleric, and two other DPS classes, I'm in heaven in terms of groupage. With that group, we can kill all day long, never take a break, have about the best buffs possible, and still kill pretty much anything at a fast clip. Group survivability is pretty high as well, since we can kill singles very fast, but also handle multiples if needed.


But I'll take pretty much any combination classes. Heck. I was in a PoH group last weekend, where for about 2 hours, I was the puller, main tank, and healer. Admittedly, we were in the shallow end of PoH, but we were looking for drops from there anyway, so who cares? We still managed to basically keep the entire low end of PoH cleared the entire time, and never came close to having a death.

I really think any combo will work in a group. You just have to be willing to adjust your tactics and perhaps your hunting targets to match. While everyone wants to gain exp and loot and such, at the end of the day it is a game, and I don't know of too many people who care if they gained X percent less exp during their grouping experiences if they had fun doing it. Play what you think you'll have the most fun playing. If you're enjoying yourself, others will enjoy grouping with you, and everyone will have a better time. Focusing too much on what class is the "best" usually results in too much stress in the game, and makes people not have fun. Just do what you enjoy, and let the rest sort itself out...

Clearing up a few misconceptions.

First, if by end game you mean later GoD stuff, then shamans are totally worthless (super fast fights + slow-mitigating/immune 1200+ hitting mobs = useless shaman). If you mean BoT or easy LDoN, then they're fantastic. Paladins are saying similar things about later GoD. That you pretty much need a defensive warrior to tank the stuff. I'm personally still working through the sewer trials, so haven't experienced that feeling of complete worthlessness that so many other GoD shamans are feeling, but I'm definitely seeing a hint of it even now.

Second, shaman do not have any stackable AC buffs. Adding a shaman to your groups will make at best a trivial impact on your AC with a crappy AGI buff. And "end game" groups probably have maxed AGI anyhow. In fact, in very late "end game", you can pretty much assume all stats are maxed, so shaman stat buffs are garbage and focus is simply a 544 hp buff. I'm told that even the +140 ATK from ferine avatar starts hitting some ATK soft caps in the very late end game. Even at my current level of progression (SolRo tower, GoD-sewers), the only buffs anyone cares about from me are Focus and Ferine Avatar. And our crappy haste will do in a pinch if no chanter can be found.

Third, shamans DO NOT have any poison based slow spells. And the disease based ones are useful on a small handful of (mostly) raid mobs. In almost all contexts, a chanter or beastlord is a more than adequate slower. In "end game" situations, with significant slow mitigation, the difference in slows is not measurable. In fact, a bard is an adequate slower on heavily mitigating mobs.

All that said, many of these issues are likely to be fixed by the time your shaman/paladin gets to the particular end game where the problems exist (level 65, 200+ aa, end game GoD).

Both shamans and paladins are fantastic classes all the way until then. In most of the places where I hunt with my shaman, I feel quite useful. Especially in small or oddly balanced groups. Only real complaint is when I'm the 4th or later shaman on a raid. Shamans stack very poorly on raids after the first couple.

For a guaranteed "end game" role, other than clerics and enchanters, I'd probably go with warrior. Perhaps Bard. Other classes are situationally useful. Ranger/druid have long lasting ensnare spell. Necros have the very nice combo of feign death + rez. End game wizards can unleash some pretty impressive dps, but even that is stupidly bad compared to a chanter charmed mob.

Ack! You're right Kazim. Don't know why I put AC in there. Focus is HP (and other stats). Um... I still consider that useful. Sure, maybe not in GoD, but 99% of the folks here aren't going to be at that level for some time (and things will likely change by then anyway as you said). For everyone else, the focus line is great because of the extra HP. Honestly, extra AC really isn't that important. Most tanks are going to have sufficient AC with or without buffs. Anything over 1200 will work, and you get very small improvements beyond that until you get into tier3+ content anyway (at which point your gear will likely have improved anyway).

Adding an extra 500-700 hp is pretty nice though. I'll take that over most other buffs anyday. Also, while at the very top end, everyone may have maxed combat stats, most people dont. A shaman who increases everyone's str, dex, agi, and sta up from their normal levels up to max can make a noticable difference in how quickly a group can plow through mobs. Sure. It's not huge, but every little bit helps. I still think Shamans are one of, if not the most favorite class I like to group with.