Best Tank?Follow

I couldn't agree more great Post=) Ya alot of peps think a warrior's job is too kill mobs nope. It depends on the balance of the group. Warriors unlike SK and Pallys are totally group oriented meaning they need the help of other, or GROUP MEMBERS to kill mobs. Balance you say=) Ok my point is if you have a wizard in a group trust me, that lol will be the one finshing the mob off not you everytime.
Most peps over think the whole thing! It up too the whole group too help the main tank TANK! What doo you mean everyone in group needs too help? Well first let me say not everyone that plays EQ buys there character or PLATS from EQ TRADER or other web sites like that. So not every tank you group with is going too have two 80k pluss weapons in each hand too keep agro of your little pewee ***=) Point being if your not main tank why in the hell are you getting hit. OK OK not every person that plays a tank can tank or know how too keep agro, I toally agree. I read some where in one post that disarm is a help, and they are totally right. Man when I play my tank I got three main buttons I hit. Normally in this sequence TAUNT KICK DISARM (repeat)! TAUNT KICK DISARM (repeat)!
As a tank in EQ you have to keep your eyes always open if that mob takes off and trys too rip my group member a new one. LOL I make it my personal business too DOT that stupid mob up with as many critical hits and crippling blows as possible. WHAT? you have no control on that? YA you doo if you a master or grand master in the WEPONS THAT YOU USE! Man I get alot of critical hits and crippling blows if a mob is foolish enough to turn its back on me even cricitcal kicks start too pop alot. HEHEH ya thats right. Iam half MONK lol=P
Point being always watch for text you can't see your target. Also watch for that lol *** wizzy that nukes way to soon, and that shammy or druid that love to drop a slow spell and dots no sooner as you return with a mob. Let the mob slap some sense in his or her ***. Then you drop your TUANT and KICK and you will get agro right back, if you done this your whole EQ life.
I do not think a warrior can out taunt a Pally or SK on any day. Unlike alot of peps wrote SK has nice little love slave that well dps a mob up plus even die for there lover HEHEHE. SK can life tap and dot and slow like baby necro another real agro getter. Pally what can I say, they can chain Stun Heal the whole group, which any true Pally worth there salt KNOWS thats a real agro keeper. LOL nothing like that Stun spell that stops a mob in its tracks and make it focus all of its attention on you=)
OK lol warrior are kings and Queens when it comes too multi mobs handling which I have not seen one post about. Ya they have alot of HIT POINTS and pluss they can where plate armor but you peps forgot the main thing about warriors unlike any other character. They get hit for less and far less damage too. Ya thats right they get DODGE PARRY and the infamous RIPOSTE. YA I know ranger get those big three two. What I mean by multi mobs handling is alot of peps don't know this yet thats why I love EQ HEHEH. OK got too go into a short story mode for you. I was in KC with my warrior at entrance a while ago when KC was the spot to be pre POP. I was in a group and got train, I had like five Drovage on me at start. Two or three of group members zone. So it was me and a cleric that was unwilling too let me die HEHEH and a wizard. Trick is get in corner or get your back against the wall where all the mobs is in FRONT of you and not BEHIND you. Only Warrior take less damage from mutli mobs than any other character. Yes I know monks hold title on single mobs, not when it comes too Multi mobs a warrior well get hit far less and for less damage ONLY if he or she is smart enough too keep the mobs in FRONT of them not on the side or behind them. Ya I had a smart wizard that rooted mobs far enough away from fight when they decided too agro cleric when she drop a heal on me. OO ya thats right back where we started from. You have too have smart peps to group with that can help you tank. Point being WE KILLED all FIVE before my other group member rezone and pluss a few adds.

At the end of the day the best tank class is the one who is played by the person who enjoys being the focal point of the groups attack. It is the class played by the person who care less about whereer they die than, about wheather the group killed the mob. It is the class played by the person who is willing to bite the big one to give the group enough time to excape.

At one time it was actually important for lower lvl tank classes to hold agro, but with the cabilar of equipment used by most lower lvl folks the mob has a hard time doing signiffent damage to any member of the group. When playing my lvl lvl tanks i never worry too much if some other class take agro for a bit. i do want i can to get it back, but at some point folks will learn how not to gain agro....this will happen at about the time the mob can do serious damage to them.

On weapons and agro generation.
At lower lvl is it very common for two hand weapons to out agro sets of one hand weapons. This is do to the low DW skill lvl. Now it has been a while since I've played a lowere lvl warrior. However it was my expeance that the snark battelhammer and the centi warspear were very competative for agro until lvl 40 or so.

Low delay vs high dps weapons.
At lowere lvl the ratio or the dps of a weapon is a much better indacator of how well it will hold agro than the delay. As a case in point the Wurm Slayer will out agro the Lamatition till lvl 50 or so.

Soloing a warrior
It is true that a warrior has a harder time soloing than most other classes. However with decent equipment it is a symple thing to solo a warrior to lvl 50. By decent equipment I mean a haste item as good as the fbss, and armor as good as crafted. Race also plays a role in soloing. An Oger warrior can solo much better than a half elf warrior.

I wonder if you even play a Warrior.




Taunt - as plentifully described above - raises you to the top of aggro list. Mashing it like this is not only pointless but it means that the moment you actually need it it is probably not refreshed



Last time I looked Crippling Blow only happened when you were below about 20% health and was an automatic conversion from what would have been Critical Hits. Also the chance to Crit is DEX related.



Sage advice for any melee



Actually with some mobs it is better for the slow to land on incoming. Shaman can take a few hits from a slowed mob usually. And then when you taunt it off there is nothing more to pull aggro. Taunt is a special tool. Kick is just another attack, it has no special benefits.

The other point is that with this attitude it is no wonder those Shaman and wizards prefer a knight tank.



I'm sure paladins and SK will be shocked to learn that they don't get Dodge (Level 10), Parry (Level 17) or Riposte (Level 30).

The technique you describe is by no means a warrior-only skill. Any decent tank could use it. Being aware that stuff hitting you from behind does more damage is hardly rokcet science(TM).

I take it back - you do play a warrior. I've met warriors like you /shudder.

Sorry Tarv. He is right on this. If the MA is walled then the mob has it's back to the widest possible arc. This maximises dps and gives Rogues the most room to work. It also prevents the fight wandering all over the place which loses rogue dps.

This is the standard way of taking something like Vindi. Get the MA in the corner and the rest of the raid has a clear shot at the mob's back.

You are talking as if he'd said to put the mob in the corner in which case you'd be right.


As for rangers tanking over knights or warriors, Jennock is right it is about gear. A ranger has probably the best tools for grabbing and holding aggro (if you exclude Shaman). Their usual problem is they don't have the ac/hp to match. Given this they are very good.

However I think that you would have to agree that given they have equivalent gear the ranger is probably better letting a knight/warrior tank and applying their dps.

Actually this reminds me of a group a while ago which personified the equipment problem. Two paladins trying to decide who would be MA. One has noticeably higher hp/ac so the other agrees and takes SA. However the SA has 31% haste and is using his new toy a 1HS with 21/24 or such. MA has no haste and is using a 2HS. Given that the SA should have done something about his weapon but the aggro just bounced the whole time.

yeah you right i miss read that sorry dude 8o)

* Edit if you start pushing mobs into the wall in some zones they have a nasty habit of disappearing

Edited, Fri Apr 16 13:09:21 2004 by tarv

I agree with you gbaji, but I think you're not taking into consideration The amount of aggro a paladin with a slow delay two hander can generate at times. The amount of aggro generated by an attack is dependent on the amount of damage done. That's why wizards have so many problems with aggro. They insist on using those huge, inefficient nukes that tick the mobs off to no end. Sometimes I think they just like to hear the group say,"Wow! Awesome nuke there. Now hold on a second while the cleric memorizes rez."

A paladin using a high delay 2 handed weapon is going to be getting a pretty big damage bonus. This makes for some pretty nice damage. If you stun right away, then get say a double attack for max damage, a warrior can have a heck of a time keeping aggro off you. The point of my rambling is, for those young paladins out there, I wouldn't try that technique unless you're sure the warrior knows what they're doing. Of course if the mob heads for a caster, by all means throw a stun on it to get that snap aggro, even if it means the warrior has to fight for a bit to get it off you. It's always better for the paladin to be getting beaten on than the caster, no matter what the situation(unless you're the main healer for the group as a paladin, but then I'd say better you than me).

Oh, and one more thing for you young fighters. If you're not the main tank and having trouble with getting aggro, feel free to /attack off and back up for a second to let the MT generate a bit of aggro. It works wonders sometimes.

Yes. This is true. You do get 'burst agro' from a large 2h weapon. But agro is a continually adding total. What matters most is agro over time. DW fast 1h weapons will always outagro a 2h weapon over time. That's why warriors use DW for agro generation. Sure. If I drop a stun, and then immediately follow up with a nice whopping 2h DA hit, I'll be quite a bit ahead of the warrior. Honestly, it doesn't matter. Let me give an example:


Mob's pulled by ranger using a bow hit. He's got say 25 agro points on him.

Warrior runs up, hits taunt and smacks the mob. Taunt fails lets say, but first attack gives the warrior 30 agro. Mob stops chasing ranger and turns on warrior.

Paladin drops stun on mob, generating 500 agro points. Mob is now agroed on paladin, but is stunned.

Warrior attempts to taunt, but fails a second time. He's still beating on the mob though, so maybe he's up around 100 agro at this point.

Shaman drops a slow on the mob, generating 300 agro points for him. Mob is still on paladin, and is still stunned.

Paladin whacks the mob with a big hefty 2h hit, generating a nice extra 100 points of agro, bringing his total to 600.

Warrior finally succeeds at taunt, giving him 601 agro. Mob recovers from stun and turns on the warrior.

Now. At this point, the paladin might get another big hit that'll put him ahead of the warrior for a few seconds. However, the warrior will generate more agro over time on average from this point on. He will very quickly pull ahead of the paladin and stay ahead of him for the rest of the fight. Note also, that due to the actions of the paladin, the warrior now has a 600+ agro lead on everyone else. The druid can comfortably dot/nuke the mob at this point in the battle. Basically, everyone in the group can start casting spells now. They still have to worry about not generating more agro over time then the warrior, but they have a nice amount of cushion to deal with, and no single spell will put them ahead of the warrior. It's a standard "time your spells" tactic from this point on.

If the paladin had not assisted the way he did, the warrior probably would have had maybe 100-150 agro points about the time the shaman dropped slow. This means that without using a tactic like this, either your shaman will get the crap beat out of him, or he'll have to wait an additional 10 seconds or so to drop that first slow. How important that is really depends on where you are hunting. In PoP, many mobs can do a huge amount of damage in 10 seconds when unslowed.


As far as what role to play in a group? I generally leave that up to the group leader. I tend to let warriors tank if they want to (helps their egos really). I'm more then happy to play offtank and caster saver for the group. However, I will not hesitate to use my stuns if I think they'll allow us to more efficiently kill mobs. It's not like I can't self heal anyway. If I've got a KEI going, it literally costs the group nothing for me to do this each fight, even if I get beat on for 5 or 10 seconds as a result. I can heal my own damage while the healer focuses on the MT. The tiny bit of damage I'll take from a slowed mob before the warrior takes agro back is easily within my ability to heal.

If I'm sitting there with full mana and not using stuns to aid the fight then I'm not doing my part for the group. I will find ways for me to help my group kill stuff faster.

How about a better piece of advice:

Play whatever class you think you'll enjoy the most.

By the time you get your character up to a level where any particular changes will affect you significantly, SOE will have probably made a half dozen changes to every class in the game. The pendulum swings all the time. Deciding to make a particular class because it's got some advantage *now* is just silly. Make a class because it's one you are interested in playing. Don't worry about the specifics of game mechanics and class balance. They'll change over time anyway...