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Necro or MageFollow

#1 Apr 13 2004 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Forgive me all as this has probably been done thousands of times but I need to ask because I'm not going to research the thousands of responses from days/months/years past. :)

Simple question for all of the casters out there. Mage or Necro...better pet class? Eliminate the following from responses: Faction - Other pet classes - Other caster classes - what my goals are in the game - etc.

This character will not be twinked Oh my God, did you say not twinked?? Yes, I said not twinked.

A quick and simple reason for your choice will be just fine.

Personally, I like the mage for the versility of the pets - summoned items - nukes. Your thoughts are appreciated.
#2 Apr 13 2004 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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150 posts
Personally, I prefer necro..

Between an incredible pet, fear kiting, snaring, doting, root-rotting, agro-kiting, etc. I have never once missed being able to land a huge nuke on anything. At 55 I get a 600pt blast, nice, but no biggie as I'm doing appx. 400 damage per tick with dots (not even figuring in pet) solo'ing in tier I at 54. By 65 necro's are one of, if not the highest, caster DPS class. While mage summoned toys would be nice, they're not needed as a necro can solo easily, probably to 65, naked, so no need for twinking. One of the nicest things would also have to be the mana regen. Necro's have the best mana regen bar none. Noone else can even compare. Plus, you're evil :) faction's already shot so that opens up alot more things to kill ;)

Edited: How could I forget - Level 16-> Feign Death. Enough said.

Edited, Tue Apr 13 15:01:41 2004 by Vlaid
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Vlaid Bonecaller
#3 Apr 13 2004 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
The Necro is just way more survivable.

If an ad comes.. Mez, or Root and Rot. Feign Death and wipe the agro, then order the pet to attack while still FD.

Pet is getting beat up too much?.. Snare/Dot and Fear.

Best Mana Regen ( at 49 it beats KEI). Multiple ways to self heal. The Bond of Death can be cast on a Greenie with 2 HP and it still will heal the Necro for the full 800hp.. even after the mob is dead!

Feign Death and Invulnerability. With a Damage Shield.. its hard to die in a lot of places.

But if you do... Summon your own corpse and,

The best for last.. a 93% Rez.
#4 Apr 13 2004 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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77 posts
Necro ------

I have both a necro (lvl 65) and a Mage (lvl 54). I built my necro first and he's been my main for about 4 years. I started the Mage when my necro hit 60 (which was the lvl cap at the time). Necros rule when it comes to soloing and they really come into their own once they hit 55. My mage doesn't solo as well, but he still does okay. Mana is ALWAYS an issue for my mage. Seems like he never has any. Having to rely on C3 all the time can be a pain, but hey it works. A mage's ability to summons items for extra dmg in grp play helps tremendously. I group 99% of the time with my mage. With my necro, if I feel like grouping I do, if I don't, I solo. No need of C3 for a necro as Seduction of Saryrn rules over any form clarity in the game.

Descarte Meditations Arch Lich - Povar
Durfee Darkheart Mage (53'd lvl) - Povar

Edited, Tue Apr 13 15:48:32 2004 by Barto

Edited, Tue Apr 13 19:04:44 2004 by Barto
#5 Apr 13 2004 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
done way to many times and the bottom line is play what you want.

nec = solo king of pure casters.

mage = Mr. Vending machine.

when both are played well, they are hard to do without. both fight completly different. both have their strong and weak points.

in the way of class ballance, those 2 are very close in ballance, with the differance being a necro is 10times more survivable then any other class in the game.

1. self heals.
2. fear
3. root
4. darkness
5. HoTs
6. ST (screaming terror, an 18sec mez with memflash %)
7. FD (feign death, when successful 100% drop from hate list and memory)

both classes get gate and some form of shadow step, both have DD and DoT type spells. both have pet heal spells.

if you want to group go mage, i never turn down a skilled mage in any group. if you want to solo or group, go nec. again i never turn down a skilled nec in a group either.
#6 Apr 13 2004 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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5,311 posts
It really boils down to what fighting style you're more comfortable with.

I think of necromancers as being more defense oriented and magicians more offense oriented.

My main is a magician, and even though I know necros are more powerful in some ways (and yes, have way better mana regen), I simply can't get used to their style of fighting (dots, fear kiting, etc.). I like to be able to send in my pet and burn down a mob fast. Magicians excel at this. My thought is the longer the mob is alive, the longer I'm in danger.

A magician's ability to choose the best pet type for each situation is also quite a plus.

Our summoned goodies? Some may say they're not needed but honestly I get asked for every type of summoned item quite frequently, so people do like them (and so do I).

Necros (from my observations) are one of the least understood classes in EQ. Perhaps it's because many necros solo until very high levels so the rest of us just don't know what they can do. It's just another thing to consider, not a poke at the class.
#7 Apr 13 2004 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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405 posts
If you like to solo the necro is definitely the way to go. A soloing magician just has a much more difficult time breaking camps without Lull or Root. Depending upon a pet's root can be a rather risky proposition. Mages also can't heal themselves unlike the necro.

If you like a mixture of soloing and grouping the mage definitely has a lot to bring to the table. Many groups welcome a mage for the DPS from the pet, many offensive spells, lots of nice summoned items, and the ability to place the pet on adds when crowd control isn't available.

Both classes are fun to play, but the necro still outshines all other classes when it comes to soloing.
#8 Apr 13 2004 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Necro, for downtime, soloability, utility, grouping.

Mage, for grouping, summoning trinkets, Call of the Hero in raids.

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#9 Apr 13 2004 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
I love my 65 Necro. If only he could track and pacify high level mobs then he would be able to do just about everything in the game. I've played a mage and while fun in groups I find I die a lot more often due to not be able to heal or clear agro. If you get an add you are in huge trouble. Necro I just FD. It works almost always. I like my 59 bard to. I maybe level him to 65, but I'm not sure. I'm tempted since people say they are now the best pullers in the game.
#10 Apr 13 2004 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
23 posts
You're probably already noticing a trend here, but Necro seems the way to go. Both classes can solo but the Necro just has so many more tricks up it's sleeves. Mage is a bit simpler to play though.
#11 Apr 13 2004 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
Thorric wrote:


Simple question for all of the casters out there. Mage or Necro...better pet class? Eliminate the following from responses: Faction - Other pet classes - Other caster classes - what my goals are in the game - etc.



Although you have tried to define your question, you left out the most important part.

What do you want to do with this character.

As you can see from the answers you got, the majority lean toward the Necro because it is apparently "a better soloing class".

I do not believe that you can state either is "better" than the other.

They are arguably the two most "all around powerful" classes in the game, but for different reasons.

Necro for their inexhaustable supply of mana, this makes them extremely powerful.

Mage for their sheer massive damage output that can be sustained almost indefinately. (Almost as long as a Ranger, but is not situation dependent in the way a Ranger is).

A Necro and a Mage both knowing all the tricks of their class, full spell book and the appropriate AAs would stand equal in their over all "power", but it would be exhibited in different ways.

So you need to explain how you plan to use your character.



PS... to the person who said that Mages were at a disadvantage because they couldn'y heal themselves... Mages have absolutley no need to heal themselves, they have very good ability to heal their pets, they themselves will rarely ever get hit. AoEs are a matter of gear and technique (or tactics if you will).
#12 Apr 14 2004 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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5,311 posts
Quote:
I've played a mage and while fun in groups I find I die a lot more often due to not be able to heal or clear agro.
/boggle

You need to adjust your tactics. Forget about healing. Forget about being able to "clear agro".

If you're pulling aggro off your pet, do yourself a favor and never use your earth pet for soloing until you have mastered agro management. Learn how hard and how often you can nuke without pulling aggro. Using a non rooting pet will teach you in no time.

Magicians are good where there's a bit of space to pull a mob away from potential adds. Go after single targets as breaking up a camp is pretty much impossible. Pull with a low agro spell (not your biggest nuke).

If you get an add, aggro kite it until your pet is free to attack it.
#13 Apr 15 2004 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
"/boggle

You need to adjust your tactics. Forget about healing. Forget about being able to "clear agro".

If you're pulling aggro off your pet, do yourself a favor and never use your earth pet for soloing until you have mastered agro management. Learn how hard and how often you can nuke without pulling aggro. Using a non rooting pet will teach you in no time.

Magicians are good where there's a bit of space to pull a mob away from potential adds. Go after single targets as breaking up a camp is pretty much impossible. Pull with a low agro spell (not your biggest nuke).

If you get an add, aggro kite it until your pet is free to attack it."

This is all fine and dady, but you pet wont be able to last very long by itself if you aren't healing it. Without snare it will be hard to agro kite a mob anyway. On top of this at high levels you can't really solo as a mage in PoP. The mobs will eat your pet alive before you can nuke it to death and if you nuke to much you will get agro. I would play a necro over mage just for the feign death. Can't say how many times it's saved my life solo or in group. It can also be used for pulling mobs or breaking camps. Mages have thier uses as does every class at high levels and also have the best pets by far, but in the end they end up a grouping class. In fact with shackle of spirit necros have a 70% slow vs undead so they don't even have to agro kite to level up. They can just pop into a zone like veksar and have the pet tank it.
#14 Apr 15 2004 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I stand by my post. And I'm making the assumption that the person having so much trouble with this is pre-pop level.

Adjusting one's tactics resolves most of these issues. If one wants to go after mobs that require heavy pet healing, one's margin of error is very small. If you consistantly hunt in situations with only slight margins for error, you will die more often. That's just common sense.

I see two choices for a magician: Hunt easier targets or accept you're going to die often. Either choice is valid.

Aggro kiting isn't something I do on purpose. It's reserved for those times when I get an add. If I don't have SoW, chances are I will be taking a few hits before my pet is free, but I don't see that snare is necessary. Convenient, yes.

If you'll reread my post, you won't see anything comparing necromancers to magicians. My first post clearly stated my position on that topic. I was merely responding to an issue someone was having playing their magician.
#15 Apr 15 2004 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
Can't solo in POP after the pet revamp or before


Mage 65 pet has a health regen i think of something to the effect i beleive 450 a tic maybe higher they reposte a TON.

I seen mages go into Teir 4 Hate and play around up there

When buffed they can attain roughly 6+k in hp when focused can hit for 85 with right aa's can ramp flurry and enrage.

I have seen a 65 war get chewed up by a mage pet by attacking from the front due to the reposte factor on them

It goes the same with the Necros..


I do agree that Mages are Offensive necros can be both offensive and Defensive necros do get nukes.


But necoros in my oppion are basically jacks of all trades

In a pinch they can mez.
In a pinch they can serve as chanter in a since of giving mana
in a pinch they can heal( meduim amounts of dmg as long as a necor has access to get health back)

However necors can only haste there pet with a spell while a mage can cast there burnout and give the muzzle of mardoo to give a worn haste and casted haste..

Necors can slow ( undead only of course)
They also Get dire charm ( undead only)


Both classes have alot to bring to the table

Necors have a reverse form of COH( summon corpse) and COH doesnt work in alot of places ( old plane of air is one place that comes to mind as long as the necro has the key up to
7th isle everyone die by the key master necro summons)



I really think the necro and the mage are well ballanced it just boils down to personel preference.
#16 Apr 15 2004 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
Well my magician is 32 and my necro is 65. Magician is a great class and it can summon lots of useful toys. All I'm really saying is that magician's have much less in the way of options and they will likely die a lot more often then necromancer's will at high levels. I just like the versatility of Necro's and thier survivability in bad situations.
#17 Apr 15 2004 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
Darksabre I find that very hard to believe. I have the 65 necro pet child of bertoxulous and he only hits for about 78. Granted he is unfocused and I don't have the new AAs, but he can't even tank in PoN without the mob being slowed. Good luck tanking in a tier 2 zone with a mob hitting for 700+. Hed be toast ASAP. As for a 65 warrior being beat up by a 65 mage pet that must be a really weak warrior.
#18 Apr 16 2004 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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150 posts
Too many people seem to be forgetting about the sick dps Nec's can kick out at higher levels. :P

BoT 54 dps
Horror 72 dps
SK 32 dps
DP 22 dps
FP 44 dps
pet 75dps

after BA4 upgrade, which most nec's have, youre looking at

BoT 64.8 dps
Hor 86.4 dps
SK 38.4 dps
FP 52.8 dps
Pet 75.0 dps
-------------

317.4 dps with only 4 dots and pet...and this is neglecting splurt. A necro can easily kick out 4 dots w/o gaining agro (due to FD) and do tremendous damage to a mob. Mage's can do this also, but run a serious risk of gaining agro. Also, nec's do get a 1.2k or so nuke in the mid 60's, so can do that if we need to for trash :)


Edited, Fri Apr 16 10:58:16 2004 by Vlaid
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Vlaid Bonecaller
#19 Apr 16 2004 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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DruidofEQ wrote:
Well my magician is 32 and my necro is 65... All I'm really saying is that magician's have much less in the way of options and they will likely die a lot more often then necromancer's will at high levels.
That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. At level 32 you're making assumptions.

My magician is level 62 now and I die much less often than most other players I know. Even in a wipe situation I'm usually the last one standing (and if I'm smart, by this time I've memmed gate). You're right, a magician can't fear or feign death to escape the mobs. We can kill it, gate out or die, which leads us back to my original statement;
Quote:
I think of necromancers as being more defense oriented and magicians more offense oriented.
so it all boils down to which fighting style one is more comfortable with.

I fully concede necromancers are regarded as the more powerful of the 2 classes. There's more to choosing a character than that.
#20 Apr 16 2004 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Can't solo in POP after the pet revamp or before

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here but I can solo in all tier 1 planes fairly easily and also some parts of tier 2 (frogs in PoStorms aren't that difficult). According to some, mages with the right tactics can solo in Bastion of Thunder or Halls of Honor.

Quote:
Mage 65 pet has a health regen i think of something to the effect i beleive 450 a tic maybe higher they reposte a TON.

This is variable on which (if any) focus the mage is using. Currently with the diamond prism of companionship focus my pets regen at 275hp a tick when not engaged with a mob. If a magician is lucky enough to get the cherished companion shard then our level 61+ pets regen at 450/tick.

Since the pet changes a couple of weeks ago our pet's damage mitigation is much better. Prior to the revamp our pets were pathetic. Even with a virtue my pet required 2 ch's in order to finish off one of the light blue trash mobs in PoInnovation.

For more information about mage pets you can go to http://forum.magecompendium.com/viewtopic.php?t=9418

I'd have to say that a lot of the power from both classes comes from the person playing the toon. I've seen well played necro's do stuff that makes my jaw drop while other necro's do nothing more than have their pet attack while they toss 1-2 dots on mobs. Mages are the same way imo. There's several mages I hang around with once in awhile. Most are like me (fairly competant, not jaw dropping unbelievable good but we do more than sick the pet on the mob and nuke 1 time) but there's a couple that make me feel like a level 1 newb due to their quick thinking and ability to change tactics in order to change a wipe into a sucess.

All in all, both classes can be incredibly powerful but both can be a major pita depending on the person playing it.
#21 Apr 16 2004 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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514 posts
Play what feels right!

I personally have had a Mage, Wizzy and Necro. I drop the wizzy at level 7 the ability to solo was to hard. At that level it is hard to find groups. I drop the Mage at 17 because when I found out my Necro had the ability of self preservation I lost interest in the Mage.

I love Josettee she has just about enough of everything to do it all under the right circumstances solo or a group. I think for me the main area is agro and adds. I can feign dead with agro and either live to finish the fight or at least hall **** to survive the battle. I can manipulate add's the same way and more often then not I am alive when something goes very bad and all else has zoned or died.

I play with a Mage a lot and he draws huge agro. Sometimes if he casts to soon the agro is so drastic we can't break it before he dies. He has to drop the nuke at the right time or he is gone and we can't help him. However, when in battle with many adds and loosing crowd control he can drop one quick so everyone can move on while his pet keeps the third distracted. That is in a group, outside a group he can't manage so well.

Each class has benefits and weaknesses like all others have said it is more about your play style than really the pet.

#22 Apr 16 2004 at 3:14 PM Rating: Default
BEASTLORD!
#23 Apr 16 2004 at 3:14 PM Rating: Default
I choose











































BEASTLORD!
#24 Apr 16 2004 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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564 posts
Thorric wrote:

Simple question for all of the casters out there. Mage or Necro...better pet class? Eliminate the following from responses: Faction - Other pet classes - Other caster classes - what my goals are in the game - etc.


If you're talking which is the better pure pet class, I'd have to go with mage. Necromancers aren't REALLY a pet class in the true sense of the word(for the most part thier pet doesn't have the HP to tank appropriate level mobs really, and thier pet heal spells are woefully underpowered for the task compared to other pet classes),and considering thier hunting styles, necromancer pets are more like mana free DoT's for them. So I'd go with the mage as the better pet class.

Better all around class might be a different story thoughSmiley: wink2
#25 Apr 16 2004 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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405 posts
Quote:
/boggle

You need to adjust your tactics. Forget about healing. Forget about being able to "clear agro".

If you're pulling aggro off your pet, do yourself a favor and never use your earth pet for soloing until you have mastered agro management. Learn how hard and how often you can nuke without pulling aggro. Using a non rooting pet will teach you in no time.


Man what some people see when they read between the lines. Yes, a mage should know how to manage their nukes in order not to pull aggro. Since people are not born with this innate knowledge, it is a simple fact of life that the mage will get hit until he/she does learn these hard lessons. With no healing abilities at the lower to mid levels this puts the mage in a more precarious situation than the necro. The necro also can "over due it" as well with their DOTs gain aggro, but with lifetap they may live past the situation.
#26 Apr 16 2004 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
I have a RL friend mage lvl 65 his pet after getting a summond pet kit tanks for us while we do caster damage. Personaly I like the Mage pet.
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