And this time for real.
Lately on raids, we have had a large reduction of players attending raids, where before we could fill a full 72 persons, we often are down to 40, also have had to cancel raids due to not enough.
This has startet with the release of GoD.
This is also kind of splitting the guild, some won't participate in GoD raids, other wanna do GoD raids, rest don't care so much, as long as a raid is happening.
Also the trials, leave some people behind, because they not on the "optimal" class list to play in the god trials.
Atm. as I see it, EQ got about 8-10 months of living time back, which is also close to the release date of EQ 2....
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Is EQ slowing - fast dying ?Follow
No you guild is just dying, get over it move on.
People have been saying EQ is gonna die for as long as i have played and there are more people playing now than then.
The people who don't want to do GoD raids are prolly the people who got stiffed when you where doing PoP raids and are still trying to catch up to the rest of the guild. Every guild has people who always seem to get the good loot and then make the guild raid somewhere else because they have thier Phat loot, usually the guild leader and his cronies <or reletives in my ex guilds case.>
There has been reduction in people playing since DX9 came out but most have filtered back since then, people talk about leaving but never do.
People have been saying EQ is gonna die for as long as i have played and there are more people playing now than then.
The people who don't want to do GoD raids are prolly the people who got stiffed when you where doing PoP raids and are still trying to catch up to the rest of the guild. Every guild has people who always seem to get the good loot and then make the guild raid somewhere else because they have thier Phat loot, usually the guild leader and his cronies <or reletives in my ex guilds case.>
There has been reduction in people playing since DX9 came out but most have filtered back since then, people talk about leaving but never do.
Yep, classic death throes of a raiding guild.
You are much better off raiding with 40 good people than 72 with 32 of them wanting to be somewhere else anyway.
There's no easy way to do it, but the guild management are going to have to bight the bullet and demonstrate their worth as leaders quick time, or there will be nothing left.
You are much better off raiding with 40 good people than 72 with 32 of them wanting to be somewhere else anyway.
There's no easy way to do it, but the guild management are going to have to bight the bullet and demonstrate their worth as leaders quick time, or there will be nothing left.
/nod @ tarv an Iluien
I've had a few comments from others on our server about formerly big-name guilds that are whithering on the vine.
My own view is that this always happens - they grow, decline, some recover, some don't. It's just that sometimes synchronicity means a few fade at the same time.
Even with EQ2 (the lastest video's are awesome), EQ still has a considerable shelf-life. No way am I likely to scrap the hundreds of hours I've invested in my toons, even if I do divert some of my time to a new game.
Remember how SWG was going to decimate EQ? Bahh
I've had a few comments from others on our server about formerly big-name guilds that are whithering on the vine.
My own view is that this always happens - they grow, decline, some recover, some don't. It's just that sometimes synchronicity means a few fade at the same time.
Even with EQ2 (the lastest video's are awesome), EQ still has a considerable shelf-life. No way am I likely to scrap the hundreds of hours I've invested in my toons, even if I do divert some of my time to a new game.
Remember how SWG was going to decimate EQ? Bahh
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
I agree with tarv, illuien and nobby to an extent, guild do get bigger and smaller and die out for reasons like that, but can you be sure the guys not right? Yes this could be anotehr guild on its way under, or in need of some TLC, but it could also be EQ going under like korred said.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but i think you could see it from his point of view.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but i think you could see it from his point of view.
Seems to me like quite a few who have reached the so-called *end game* of EQ are losing interest gradually. Will be interesting to see what happens when the next big one comes out, maybe WoW.
Not dying at all.
What I see right now are people trying different games suddenly all because of the dx9 patch and its still current after-effects.
Our raids suffered tremendously after the dx9 patch. Some people could not login, some did not want to as the bugs were simply too much for them. We dived from 50(ish) to 35(ish) on raids for a week or so. Now the bugs are being fixed we are back to 45(ish) on raids.
Also, it is spring. Lots of sports starting. We have recently lost a guild clr on most raids until his sports season is over. He will be back and has nothing to do with his wanting or not wanting to log into EQ. People have RL outside of EQ and they will enjoy it in the sun
In the 3 years I have played EQ, spring/summer has always seen a reduction in raid forces and players in general due to holidays/sports etc etc. People can play outside so they will.
What I see right now are people trying different games suddenly all because of the dx9 patch and its still current after-effects.
Our raids suffered tremendously after the dx9 patch. Some people could not login, some did not want to as the bugs were simply too much for them. We dived from 50(ish) to 35(ish) on raids for a week or so. Now the bugs are being fixed we are back to 45(ish) on raids.
Also, it is spring. Lots of sports starting. We have recently lost a guild clr on most raids until his sports season is over. He will be back and has nothing to do with his wanting or not wanting to log into EQ. People have RL outside of EQ and they will enjoy it in the sun
In the 3 years I have played EQ, spring/summer has always seen a reduction in raid forces and players in general due to holidays/sports etc etc. People can play outside so they will.
GoD was a bit of a funny expansion too. Many, many people saw little point in it. Although for a serious raiding guild it does seem the logical way to go after PoP. That is a part of the problem, if you haven't finished PoP progression then requiring people to have an expansion they may not see any use for would be divisive.
PoP was really a no-brainer with it's raid functions (at last) and rapid transit. There was little reaon for anyone involved in a raid guild to refuse to get it.
LoY was a bit more marginal. There was not that much in there for a guild engaged in Velius, Luclin or PoP progression except some gee-whiz things and a couple of recreational raids.
LDoN was almost raid-irrelevant unless you had the kind of force to do LDoN raids. In many ways it worked against raiding guilds, certainly their ability to spontaneously raid race targets.
GoD explicitly adds high end content and some very nice drops. It also has it's own raid progression which in difficulty appears (to a lowbie like me) to follow on from PoP. I can well see how a guild heavily involved in planar progression would not want to divert effort into it.
That said it is not exactly an expensive buy. If having or not having it are breaking up your guild then it implies undelying issues for which this is being used as an excuse.
I think EQ has been hurt by the number of new games but it has recovered pretty well each time. Lots of people went to Horizons and came back, to SWG and came back, to Lineage 2 and came back. I suspect that lots will go to WoW and come back. It is even likely that many will go to EQ2 and come back.
I'll let a techie correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is a direct link between game server numbers and physical server numbers. In other words an EQ "Server" might be one cluster or there might be several "Servers" within that cluster. If I am right then actual server numbers is no indication of the game's health since if the same hardware can run two or more virtual servers there is no difficulty or oncost in them opening new servers on existing hardware. Shoot me down you SA's
However if subscriber numbers were falling seriously then we would be seeing zones clearing and overcrowding disappearing. If that were happening I doubt they would create more game servers to spread the playerbase even thinner.
I think Jennock has a good point too.
The spring is sprung,
The grass is ris,
I wonder where my guildies is.
PoP was really a no-brainer with it's raid functions (at last) and rapid transit. There was little reaon for anyone involved in a raid guild to refuse to get it.
LoY was a bit more marginal. There was not that much in there for a guild engaged in Velius, Luclin or PoP progression except some gee-whiz things and a couple of recreational raids.
LDoN was almost raid-irrelevant unless you had the kind of force to do LDoN raids. In many ways it worked against raiding guilds, certainly their ability to spontaneously raid race targets.
GoD explicitly adds high end content and some very nice drops. It also has it's own raid progression which in difficulty appears (to a lowbie like me) to follow on from PoP. I can well see how a guild heavily involved in planar progression would not want to divert effort into it.
That said it is not exactly an expensive buy. If having or not having it are breaking up your guild then it implies undelying issues for which this is being used as an excuse.
I think EQ has been hurt by the number of new games but it has recovered pretty well each time. Lots of people went to Horizons and came back, to SWG and came back, to Lineage 2 and came back. I suspect that lots will go to WoW and come back. It is even likely that many will go to EQ2 and come back.
I'll let a techie correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is a direct link between game server numbers and physical server numbers. In other words an EQ "Server" might be one cluster or there might be several "Servers" within that cluster. If I am right then actual server numbers is no indication of the game's health since if the same hardware can run two or more virtual servers there is no difficulty or oncost in them opening new servers on existing hardware. Shoot me down you SA's
However if subscriber numbers were falling seriously then we would be seeing zones clearing and overcrowding disappearing. If that were happening I doubt they would create more game servers to spread the playerbase even thinner.
I think Jennock has a good point too.
The spring is sprung,
The grass is ris,
I wonder where my guildies is.
Wherever I go - there I am.
I still have a huge interest in EQ - Just haven't had a lot of free time to sit and wait for the LDON crowd to come back. WIth the anniversary stuff going on - LDON has been slim pickings. No problem here. Just a few more days.
I have rediscovered a new old game (Might & Magic 7). I actually had to use an old computer with Win 98 on it to get it to run. Their is no support for XP since 3DO went out of business.
Its a great game to play if you don't have a few hours to invest in EQ. I am presently restoring my Castle I inherited in Harmondale and leveling my 4 toons. Spent last night getting EXPERT skills in Fire Magic, Disarm Trap, and Merchant!
It's brainless fun.
Poopp
Level 14 Troll Warrior
Level 28 Cleric
Level 27 Shaman
Level 33 Enchanter
Level 34 Pally.
Bristlebane
I have rediscovered a new old game (Might & Magic 7). I actually had to use an old computer with Win 98 on it to get it to run. Their is no support for XP since 3DO went out of business.
Its a great game to play if you don't have a few hours to invest in EQ. I am presently restoring my Castle I inherited in Harmondale and leveling my 4 toons. Spent last night getting EXPERT skills in Fire Magic, Disarm Trap, and Merchant!
It's brainless fun.
Poopp
Level 14 Troll Warrior
Level 28 Cleric
Level 27 Shaman
Level 33 Enchanter
Level 34 Pally.
Bristlebane
Quote:
I have rediscovered a new old game (Might & Magic 7). I actually had to use an old computer with Win 98 on it to get it to run. Their is no support for XP since 3DO went out of business.
mmmmmmm might and magic...
I actually find a copy of m&m2 (One of my old favorites) that was able to run on XP. I wish I could remember where I found that...
We're seeing some of the same effect. People tend to leave, if they're going to anyway, when a new expansion comes out. They get the "oh, what's the use?" blues, and that's it, gone.
Problem we're having now is that there are so few high caliber candidates to replace the attrition. We're recruiting, but the pickings are pretty slim.
I think SOE knew what they were doing, making GoD raids geared for 54 instead of 72. We're still light on numbers, even at that, but not crippled.
Problem we're having now is that there are so few high caliber candidates to replace the attrition. We're recruiting, but the pickings are pretty slim.
I think SOE knew what they were doing, making GoD raids geared for 54 instead of 72. We're still light on numbers, even at that, but not crippled.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Mule,
Its out there for the xp somewhere on the net. I actually played MM2 on the Mac Plus. It was an awesome game and it really was the start of my love affair with RPG's. The trick to the game was trying to survive two rounds with the cuisnarts. If you could survive then you got like 1 million exp and a few levels.
Next game was Pool of Radiance on the Commodore 64. The game was much better on the c64 then the pc because the color was more advanced and it was more refined. Great time sink for my grammer school days.
Its out there for the xp somewhere on the net. I actually played MM2 on the Mac Plus. It was an awesome game and it really was the start of my love affair with RPG's. The trick to the game was trying to survive two rounds with the cuisnarts. If you could survive then you got like 1 million exp and a few levels.
Next game was Pool of Radiance on the Commodore 64. The game was much better on the c64 then the pc because the color was more advanced and it was more refined. Great time sink for my grammer school days.
I have noticed an increase lately in low level characters. When I was in my 20s and 30s building my current primary character (just a couple of months ago) there were hardly any in those ranges. Was difficult to get LDON groups, etc. Now when I am in an adventure camp, that is all that seems to be forming. I think many people have started alts and are getting engrossed in that character and maybe neglecting the mains. Just a theory, however.
The population of EQ is just like any population, it will wax and it will wane. There are still new players trying EQ day, just as there are players leaving. But, overall, there is an inherent stasis, due to a core population, that keeps the game not only viable but thriving.
There will always be doomsayers in EQ, just as there are in RL. But, with any luck at all, both will be wrong.
There will always be doomsayers in EQ, just as there are in RL. But, with any luck at all, both will be wrong.
I think the "full circle" affect is not EQ specific. I have spent many years online in other areas of interest. From chat rooms, roleplay, gaming sites etc. I have also ran many of these and they have a build up progression, top and fall off. New come and old go etc. That is what I call the "full circle" affect on the virtual world. The same people that are not showing up are either experimenting with new toons, found a greener pasture guild or might even be trying to run thier own show. Change is inevitble with anything that you participate in.
As for EQ.....new people sign on every day or new toons. Those people need to level up and it takes time. High end guilds become exclusive to high end mains so in time they lose power because people get busy, weather changes, or some get burn out. But I think we all know that EQ is as close to a virtual addiction as one can get. We make friends, we face challenges and we have fun so very few people actually leave it totally they just take vacations or change the scenery.
The server I play on suddenly has a huge increase of new guilds! These guilds are more accepting to lower toons. I am in one and let me tell you every other member has a high level main. It doesn't mean EQ is falling apart or thinning out it just means people enjoy changes and new challenges.
Last but probably more important as EQ evolves and eliminates many user's equipment it will take time for those people to adjust and upgrade but like another poster said they will be back just need time.
As for EQ.....new people sign on every day or new toons. Those people need to level up and it takes time. High end guilds become exclusive to high end mains so in time they lose power because people get busy, weather changes, or some get burn out. But I think we all know that EQ is as close to a virtual addiction as one can get. We make friends, we face challenges and we have fun so very few people actually leave it totally they just take vacations or change the scenery.
The server I play on suddenly has a huge increase of new guilds! These guilds are more accepting to lower toons. I am in one and let me tell you every other member has a high level main. It doesn't mean EQ is falling apart or thinning out it just means people enjoy changes and new challenges.
Last but probably more important as EQ evolves and eliminates many user's equipment it will take time for those people to adjust and upgrade but like another poster said they will be back just need time.
There's a good amount of attrition right now in high end guilds, I think due to it being Spring, WoW/Lineage/City of Heroes, and also just some raids/content not appealing to people. Some of the raids are kind of fun, but I don't enjoy it as much as previous expansions. Part of the problem for me is there's no "wow" factor here. None of the bosses, except for a middling elemental-level boss in Ferubi, have unique models. You're basically killing things that look like trash no matter what you do. When you add that to some of the raids being exceptionally tedious (4 hours of clearing trash for a 20 second fight in Uqua, say), it's small wonder that people just don't want to play. The first time we killed Enraged in Uqua it was after several days of doing nothing but Uqua, a zone the majority of our players hate. We got a 70 mana aug that went to someone's alt. That wasn't a morale booster. Whoever did the itemization for some of these raids needs to be beaten with reeds.
Also, I'm not sure who had the bright idea that raiders wanted to do single group trials. If I wanted to do single-groups all the time, I wouldn't be in a raid guild. I despise the ikkinz trials. I can't think of a single thing in EQ that I enjoy less than those.
Edited, Tue Apr 13 12:00:57 2004 by Tehom
Also, I'm not sure who had the bright idea that raiders wanted to do single group trials. If I wanted to do single-groups all the time, I wouldn't be in a raid guild. I despise the ikkinz trials. I can't think of a single thing in EQ that I enjoy less than those.
Edited, Tue Apr 13 12:00:57 2004 by Tehom
The server issues was enough to make me loose interest in playing alot. I essentially stopped playing for 2 weeks because of this and now I am out of the habit so I log on for raids and that's about it. My guild has had a serious drop off in high level members for raids. I have seen a few that could not get on cause of the new DX9 requirements so that has added to the issue.
Let's see. I started playing in beta. I've quit EQ twice so far. Once for 6 months and once for a year. I have 2 toons at 65, 3 toons at 60+, and 5 toons over 50+ so that tells you how much I play.
I quit the first time to beta test and play AC when it was first released. I quit the second time to beta test and play DAoC.
Do people leave this game? Yep, they sure do. Do they come back? Yep, they sure do.
Is the game dying?
I don't think so, but there seems to be fewer people playing today than there was a year ago. I see more people playing the high end game especially the 3rd tier PoP zones. But I've also had to ask myself recently - Where is everyone? Almost all the old zones I pass through are completely empty. Most of the original cities are empty. (Even Gfay only had 3 people in it yesterday afternoon.) Many of my favorite zones like the Hole, Chardock, Sol B, Nadox, The Deep, Sirens Grotto and the Umbral Plains usually have less than 5 people in them when I pass through. Last week I was the only person in PoJ for about an hour. One has to wonder.......
I would like them to turn the server populations back on. I think they originally turned them off because people were complaining of the lag when there were 4000 people logged onto a server. Lag hasn't been a problem for at least 2 years, or at least it wasn't until the last major patch. It seems the Direct 9X patch has set us back rather than moved us forward.
Will I go to EQ II. You bet. Will I keep my toons in EQ I - probably. I've invested way too much time in them to just leave them.
Just my 2 cc.
Descarte Meditations Arch Lich - Povar
Cait Packleader Storm Warden - Povar
Edited, Tue Apr 13 18:58:52 2004 by Barto
I quit the first time to beta test and play AC when it was first released. I quit the second time to beta test and play DAoC.
Do people leave this game? Yep, they sure do. Do they come back? Yep, they sure do.
Is the game dying?
I don't think so, but there seems to be fewer people playing today than there was a year ago. I see more people playing the high end game especially the 3rd tier PoP zones. But I've also had to ask myself recently - Where is everyone? Almost all the old zones I pass through are completely empty. Most of the original cities are empty. (Even Gfay only had 3 people in it yesterday afternoon.) Many of my favorite zones like the Hole, Chardock, Sol B, Nadox, The Deep, Sirens Grotto and the Umbral Plains usually have less than 5 people in them when I pass through. Last week I was the only person in PoJ for about an hour. One has to wonder.......
I would like them to turn the server populations back on. I think they originally turned them off because people were complaining of the lag when there were 4000 people logged onto a server. Lag hasn't been a problem for at least 2 years, or at least it wasn't until the last major patch. It seems the Direct 9X patch has set us back rather than moved us forward.
Will I go to EQ II. You bet. Will I keep my toons in EQ I - probably. I've invested way too much time in them to just leave them.
Just my 2 cc.
Descarte Meditations Arch Lich - Povar
Cait Packleader Storm Warden - Povar
Edited, Tue Apr 13 18:58:52 2004 by Barto
i would venture to guess its finals time for a lot of the kids, thus the #s are down.
happens every year around finnals, big holiday breaks when kids go out of town with folks, etc.
things will most likely jump back up come summer time, then once school starts back up you will be happy to see them GONE back to school.
happens every year around finnals, big holiday breaks when kids go out of town with folks, etc.
things will most likely jump back up come summer time, then once school starts back up you will be happy to see them GONE back to school.
This is what I think Icould be way off though... I am from a mid west state ..... as you can tell winter is starting to fade away ....which means it is getting nice outside ..... During the winter if I am stuck inside might as well play EQ ... but now since the nice weather is coming I bet more people are spending it out doors
Barto,
The reason for not showing server population wasn't because of lag complains, hell, you can list servers by population, top one being the least populated. The reason was the competition, SONY did not want to show the world how many people were playing at once. As simple as that, I say this because I recall a public statement by SONY to that effect, correct me if I am wrong.
Annai 51 Druid - E'ci
Rghar 35 War - The Nameless
The reason for not showing server population wasn't because of lag complains, hell, you can list servers by population, top one being the least populated. The reason was the competition, SONY did not want to show the world how many people were playing at once. As simple as that, I say this because I recall a public statement by SONY to that effect, correct me if I am wrong.
Annai 51 Druid - E'ci
Rghar 35 War - The Nameless
Madivan -- You're probably 100% correct. It's been so long since they removed the population counters. Must be a couple of years at least. Sounds like Sony. Thanks for the info Ma :)
Tehom wrote:
Part of the problem for me is there's no "wow" factor here. None of the bosses, except for a middling elemental-level boss in Ferubi, have unique models. You're basically killing things that look like trash no matter what you do. When you add that to some of the raids being exceptionally tedious (4 hours of clearing trash for a 20 second fight in Uqua, say), it's small wonder that people just don't want to play. The first time we killed Enraged in Uqua it was after several days of doing nothing but Uqua, a zone the majority of our players hate. We got a 70 mana aug that went to someone's alt. That wasn't a morale booster. Whoever did the itemization for some of these raids needs to be beaten with reeds.
Also, I'm not sure who had the bright idea that raiders wanted to do single group trials. If I wanted to do single-groups all the time, I wouldn't be in a raid guild. I despise the ikkinz trials. I can't think of a single thing in EQ that I enjoy less than those.
Edited, Tue Apr 13 12:00:57 2004 by Tehom
Not that I have seen much of Telosia (is that the roper name for the continent?) yet, but from what I have seen I have to agree with Tehom's point here.
I am quite disappointed with the character design, I think the artist has lost the EQ feel and gone off on a rather unattractive tangent.
I believe this began with LDoN, where a similar criticism can be levelled, some LDoN critters look OK but some are very ordinary.
There has been a substantial change to the art team at EQ Live, several of the old team have gone over to EQ 2. I can understand the "new guys" wanting to put their own "stamp" on the game, but in my opinion they have gone down the wrong path.
I have sen nothing in Gates (yet) or LDoN that has given me that same gasping feeling of awe that I felt the first time I walked into ToV. (I still like to go back there and just look
Scholar
23 posts
Will EQ live or die? That's a tough one.....
I can say SOE seems to be doing everything it can to limit twinking and is making changes even now to alter the economy to make it better. I also believe they fully plan on suporting EQ for years to come. I believe the game will continue to grow and get better to continue to be a top game.
People ARE waiting for EQ2 and even more for WoW however. How those 2 games do will greatly determine EQ's fate. Btw, even Ultima Online is still kicking so I think EQ will be around for a while.
I can say SOE seems to be doing everything it can to limit twinking and is making changes even now to alter the economy to make it better. I also believe they fully plan on suporting EQ for years to come. I believe the game will continue to grow and get better to continue to be a top game.
People ARE waiting for EQ2 and even more for WoW however. How those 2 games do will greatly determine EQ's fate. Btw, even Ultima Online is still kicking so I think EQ will be around for a while.
Im with ShielaStorm, plus if youre looking to scrap EQ to make way for EQ2 why do you bring out an expansion for it, the clever thing to do would have been not update it so that people get bored with it and get all excited about EQ2, i think SoE will keep updating it, making improvements and releasing expansions long into the days of EQ2, simply because they can still make money and there will still be die hard everquesters that wont leave.
I wonder if this is just a turn over of people at the high end as opposed to people leaving? Can't speak about the high end raid guilds since my guild is just starting to get characters into the low to mid 50s. In our case, everytime I logged on we seem to have added a bunch of new people - I think we added about 6 just one night while I was playing (we have a range but most are either low teens to mid 20s or 40s and up) and are at least double the number when I joined.
As far a zones being empty, BB was crowded before with LDON and now is crowded at night for Skels - Rathe was nearly empty at the start of the celebration but now is getting back to normal.
I think what has happened is that people have changed habits to go back to older zones for fabled, skels, etc.
Overall, I think there are a lot MORE players on now on my server (Drinal) than when I first started pre POP. Will people move on to other games, sure, but I think the surprising thing is how many will end up coming back overtime and this is why EQ has staying power IMHO.
As far a zones being empty, BB was crowded before with LDON and now is crowded at night for Skels - Rathe was nearly empty at the start of the celebration but now is getting back to normal.
I think what has happened is that people have changed habits to go back to older zones for fabled, skels, etc.
Overall, I think there are a lot MORE players on now on my server (Drinal) than when I first started pre POP. Will people move on to other games, sure, but I think the surprising thing is how many will end up coming back overtime and this is why EQ has staying power IMHO.
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