Bring out the Nerf BatFollow

on Temperance. Give it a level 25 limit or something.

I've been edging towards this for ages but it finally crystallised the other day when passing through PoK and hearing a shout

"Can ne1 heal me I have 900hp". This from someone around level 5.

This buff totally trivialises encounters at very low level.

Why learn about pulling when half a dozen mobs hitting for 5's and 10's cannot wear you down before they are all dead?

Why group with healers when they cannot begin to make a dent in your hp?

Why learn to BE a healer when your tanks are unhealable? You may as well melee yourself.

Why bother with equipment? Naked with temp is much more than any newbie armour.

I would imagine the howls would rival those the sorting out of KEI caused. But it might give us some better players. And fewer "heal beggars" in PoK.

good side to the money flow stopping for those spells would mean also that the price of those spells would drop drasticaly as they would not be as usefull.

make the spread and xp spread. if the receiver of the spell could not group with the level of that spell and get xp (below im talking) then they can not receive the spell buff.

since we're on the nerf subject .......NERF NECROS dangit!(joke btw). Every time I go to veksar, there's always 1 necro camping like 5 names.

I tend to agree with the above mentioned though. A lvl 1 toon can get temp, hos, and bsa and have well over 1k hps. Just a bit overpowering me thinks. Not to mention how the AC bonus effects your defensive skillups.

../agree

Well, that said, my little (well actually not so little being an ogre and all) shammy had a field day when she picked up a fly by temp .. fun.. but one pure fun...kind of liek a one off birthday

But as a general I have to agree with you, it spoils something along the way and you miss so much. I guess the arguements are pretty much alonf the same lines of having someone PL you, not my game I'm afraid.

There's no reason it would have to apply to all beneficial spells. Really, SoW at low levels can be a lifesaver, but you're essentially giving the person a chance to run away from a losing battle.

Temp, on the other hand...

That's a reasonable argument, but I don't think people are saying that higher level spells just magically wont stick to folks (although that's what the game mechanic does). It's about relative ability generated by buffs.

You can't apply to much real world logic to this. After all, EQ is a world where people have classes and levels. And as they gain levels, they magically become capable of withstanding more damage from things (honestly: why can a 60th wizard survive a 100 foot fall, but a first leel wizard can't?).

It already doesn't make a whole lot of sense. However, if you think of buffs as being some amount of improvement to what you can do based on level, then restricting them based on level makes a lot of sense. For all the reasons folks have listed. It's ludicrous for a player with 50 base hps to run around with 1200hp because he's got super powerful gear and buffs on. It's purely about game balance. It makes sense to say that you can only increase your HP/AC/whatever a certain amount based on your current level. After all, we accept that levels already restrict what you can do so this is not a "new" concept.

On the otherhand, there's no reason to restrict harmful effects. You would expect that if you are a wimpy person compared to the other guy, that he'll just zap you with no problem. Levels restrict what you can do, they don't restrict what others can do to you. The restriction on buffs is saying that you aren't high enough level to gain the benefit of that buff, not that the magic can't physically affect you.

I understand the idea that it should be all magic...but not really. We are only talking about spells that give tremendous advantages to lower levels. They did it with KEI...they can do it for other spells.

I think they could make a 15 or 20 level cap...for instance, level 24 and above can get Temp (20 levels below 44). Or...there is already a different level of treatment for 10 and under (no corpse tretrieval or XP loss)...add cannot get buffs above lvl 20 to that. While temp is an advantage at lvl 20...not like at lvl 2. A lvl 2 with temp can pretty much solo low level zone reds forever and gain experince without really learning anything.

Oh, and those clerics want a donation because Temp costs them. Most Clerics will cast temp for the cost of the DOT only if you cannot donate more. However, asking for an additional surcharge for someone under lvl 20 might be a good discouraging factor.

/ooc Casting temp bb camp. 12 pp donation to cover dot. If you are 20th or belowan additional 50 pp required.

Maybe that would work. Clerics need to form a union.

It would also make the spell completely useless no one in thier right mind is going to cast a spell that cost 400pp<Hand of virtue takes 2 peridots> on thier group when the ave return on a LDoN is 150pp. All that would do is drive clerics to Yantis which is the worst thing that can happen.

I think the 'only cast on blue's and higher' works if you have it blue to the spell rather than PC level. <Not sure what is blue to a 44 offhand>I am pretty sure that a charicter who knows enought to get temp at lvl 2 has a high chance of knowing everything thier is to know about being lvl 2-5 it's not exactly the defining period for a class.

I cannot believe you people! Wanting to nerf spells in general! What a bunch of morons.

Is it because you are jealous of casters making some money by casting buffs?

Anyway, as we all know, the real game starts at level 46 when you can enter the planes. Before that is just a learning path to understand your character.

Your suggestions about having a minimum level a spell can be casted on. Remember that it would also apply to mobs as well. So for example a lvl 40 caster is pulling a mob in DL, instead of using the little level 1 spell to pull so the tank will have no problem tagging the mob and getting the aggro, the caster would have to use like a level 35+ spell to pull. Bet you guys never thought of that. Or what about resists? And don't say that they would be the exception. If you want a minimum level on some spells then you should have them on all spells. Or what about the caster that wants to practice his divinations spells to increase his skill? most of them are low level which means that after a certain point a caster couldn't even use the spell?

I think all this talk about nerfing spells is a bad idea and should be left as is.

I have a cleric with temp and an enchanter that's 2 levels from KEI. I said I DON'T make my money by selling buffs, I didn't say I can't. Am I jealous of clerics who spend all thier time on a game sitting in one zone casting temp as if it were a job? Not at all.

As far as the moron comment, some of the people who have posted on this topic: Cobra101, egnaro, gbaji, yanari, tarv. These are some of the most thoughtful, intelligent posters on this forum. You may not agree with the sentiments, but morons they're not.



Actually it's the mindless, boring, experience grinding that begins at 46 when you start hunting the planes. The game can start much sooner if your main goal isn't getting to 65 in a week.



The spell limits already exist to a certain extent. Try casting virtue on a level 10 character, or Aanya's quickening on a level 25 character, or even shadowbond on a level 30 character. The spells just won't stick. Yet, my enchanter still can and does use low level spells on mobs quite effectively. My paladin still uses cease to pull and has no problem with it. Your logic just doesn't make much sense.

Casting temp on a level 1 character is giving him an advantage that unbalances the game at his level. Casting suffocating sphere on a mob when you're level 58 does NOT give you a competitive advantage.



I just checked, every class that is able to cast spells with the exception of two have true north(level 1 divination spell, NOT cast on anyone, so is not considered a buff), that is a spell that because it's not cast on a target would not be subject to a level limit. The two caster classes that don't get true north are beastlords, who get sense animals, and shadowknights, who get sense dead. Both those spells are in the same category as true north, so I don't see where the problem would be with working on divination if there was a cap on beneficial spells.

You're right in theory, however the reason for putting limits on buffs isn't in order to make a completely level playing field for everything in the game. It's done to keep the player from having an undue advantage over the npcs at his/her level.

Everquest is a game based on level advancement. Therefore there HAS to be an advantage for the higher level characters, otherwise what would the motivation be for gaining levels?

The idea of detrimental spells being graded by the target's level would be interesting to see, but I can imagine some of the negative drawbacks. Little or no danger for low level players when traversing high level zones, using low level tanks for encounters(after all it's much easier to heal 1 damage than 1200 damage). I just can't agree with your arguement of grading detrimental spells.

danreynolds wrote:



Most definitely the above IS true. It IS ridiculous to grade detrimental spells, and it IS equally ridculous to grade beneficial spells. Once again, it is either ALL or NOTHING. Unless inconsistency does not bother you, in which case, by all means randomly pick spells to be "graded". Do you not find it ridiculous or even the slighest bit strange that only beneficial spells are level restricted or are the subject of similar posts in favor of reducing their effectiveness for lower level buffees? It is merely common sense that if a 65 Ranger cannot cast Call of the Rathe on a level 20 warrior because "The spell is too powerful for your target.", then the same 65 Ranger should receive the same message when he attempts to cast Frozen Wind on the Level 20 warrior during a /duel. Frozen Wind works fine, and it is just as powerful of a spell as Call of the Rathe. Frozen Wind having full effect and hitting the level 20 while Call of the Rathe receiving such a message is the height of ridiculousness and inconsistency. The same goes for a mob trying to cast such DD spells on a lvl 20 Warrior. The detrimental spell, being the same level spell as a buff that will not stick because it is to powerful, should not stick either.
The point I am making here is that TEMP should not be level restricted nor should any buffs ( or any spells for that matter). They should all work, and casters should use good judgement in deciding who needs such buffs. I play a 65 Ranger and I feel that any spell I cast on a PC or Mob should stick unless it is resisted, fizzled, or interrupted. Period. End of Story. If this was the case, I would not go around casting Call of the Rathe and Spirit of the Predator on level 20 players because I would exercise good judgement as a buffer. Enough things are nerfed to begin with... we need to concentrate on making this a player enforced restriction (casters refuse to buff those not of proper level) instead of a nerf of the caster's spells.

mtardy

danrenolds wrote


Exactly, the advantage a level 65 has, in this scenario, is the ability to cast high level beneficial spells. Yet, some persist in the belief that the spells the level 65 worked so hard and leveled to get should be nerfed so that he can only cast them on specific level players. In my opinion, the level 65 earned the spell, ground out the levels to get it, and has the right to cast it on whomever he sees fit, in his own best judgement, without worrying about some arbitrary level restriction.



I would hope so, and in a perfect world, they would. You are right if you are saying that greed is a powerful motivator. I still believe that a whole less inappropriate buffing would go on if it became player enforced ideal to buff appropriately.

mtardy