i am thinking about trying out a melee type charater and i ha a quick question about aggro
with all other considerations being equal(taunt and procs and anything similar)
what will help a tank keep aggro more
(thes numbers are just made up to ask the question wether realistic i dont know)
if tank a is hitting a mob for a total of 100 hps every 10 seconds but doing it with 5 20 point hits
or tank b is hitting for 100 hps in 10 seconds but doing it with 10 10 point hits
which one will keep aggro or is it justwho hit him most recently?
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the one who got agro first would likely keep it.
Edited, Tue Mar 16 08:04:18 2004 by sickseventwenty
Edited, Tue Mar 16 08:04:18 2004 by sickseventwenty
Maginally off topic regarding agro:-
Unless you are designated main tank, are training taunt, or are trying to taunt a mobs off a caster YOU SHOULD NOT BE TAUNTING.
Melee other than the main tank who use taunt run the risk of ping-ponging the agro amongst the group, giving the main healer more ppl to worry about, and it runs the risk of group/raid deaths.
Unless you are designated main tank, are training taunt, or are trying to taunt a mobs off a caster YOU SHOULD NOT BE TAUNTING.
Melee other than the main tank who use taunt run the risk of ping-ponging the agro amongst the group, giving the main healer more ppl to worry about, and it runs the risk of group/raid deaths.
In general, faster weapons hold aggro better than slower weapons. I don't know of exact formulas though, this is more what I understand to be true.
In your example I believe tank (b) will hold aggro better than tank (a).
In your example I believe tank (b) will hold aggro better than tank (a).
/agree Pat.
There is a small amount of agro generated everytime you swing at a mob, whether you hit or not, and regardless of damage (that's why you'll agro a mob even if you miss it with an arrow for example). Thus, the guy with 10 swings will generate a small amount more agro. It's not huge, but it should be enough that if everything else is the same, he should pull ahead in agro.
It's also useful to note that faster swings will also generate "smoother" agro, leading to less ping ponging. Not that I'd choose a fast weapon just for that effect, but it is a factor if you're relying primarily on damage and swings for agro.
There is a small amount of agro generated everytime you swing at a mob, whether you hit or not, and regardless of damage (that's why you'll agro a mob even if you miss it with an arrow for example). Thus, the guy with 10 swings will generate a small amount more agro. It's not huge, but it should be enough that if everything else is the same, he should pull ahead in agro.
It's also useful to note that faster swings will also generate "smoother" agro, leading to less ping ponging. Not that I'd choose a fast weapon just for that effect, but it is a factor if you're relying primarily on damage and swings for agro.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Indeed, as state, more hits = more aggro, but as far as misses are concerned, a lot of misses are actually hits where the damage was mitigated by AC or other damage prevention. To the monster, even if it ended up taking no damage, it conciders itself hit but you will see a Miss.
Only worry about wanting aggro if you are going to be a Tank class such as SK, Pally or Warrior. Other classes should be avoiding aggro, and even those tank classes should be if they aren't the groups main assist.
If you are LOOKING for aggro, snare spells are top of the list, I used to use them with my Ranger when the MA was in trouble and help wasn't coming soon or it I was taunting off a caster.
Only worry about wanting aggro if you are going to be a Tank class such as SK, Pally or Warrior. Other classes should be avoiding aggro, and even those tank classes should be if they aren't the groups main assist.
If you are LOOKING for aggro, snare spells are top of the list, I used to use them with my Ranger when the MA was in trouble and help wasn't coming soon or it I was taunting off a caster.
thanks for the advice and help but just to make sure i got it right
first if i am main tank the faster lower damage would help me kep aggro better assuming all else is equal
if i am not the main tank i should be using the slower more powerful weapon?
first if i am main tank the faster lower damage would help me kep aggro better assuming all else is equal
if i am not the main tank i should be using the slower more powerful weapon?
Sir KerikDaven wrote:
but as far as misses are concerned, a lot of misses are actually hits where the damage was mitigated by AC or other damage prevention. To the monster, even if it ended up taking no damage, it conciders itself hit but you will see a Miss.
Where did you get this information from?
The concensus over on the Steel Warrior board amongst those who had run very extensive parsing analysis was that the all hits not matter to what fraction the calculator extended it, were rounded up to 1.
All misses were due soley to avoidance.
A lot of work was done experimenting with various algorithms to try to match the data the only ones that made sense rounded up all "hits" to one, nothing ever appeared to be rounded down to zero.
Quote:
Only worry about wanting aggro if you are going to be a Tank class such as SK, Pally or Warrior. Other classes should be avoiding aggro, and even those tank classes should be if they aren't the groups main assist.
I would disagree with this. All classes should be capable of taking aggro. But also aware of how and when to do it.
Eg.
healer oom tank badly damaged. A ranger might prevent death by taking over aggro at that point (before blood aggro). If the tank dies then the ranger certainly wants to grab that aggro before it goes on the healer, slower or CC.
or
Druid grabs aggro and kites mob while healer gets mana back.
While these are exceptional I certainly don't want the ranger to carry on jolting or whatever while the mob beats on the enchanter.
Many classes that "shouldn't" get aggro are pretty good at it. They need to learn the skill and then file it against need. If nothing else learning how to get aggro gives you a pretty good idea what not to do when you don't want it.
(And if you didn't not get that then I'm obviously not making myself unclear)
Another example:
I've heard so many times a beastlord say "Sorry I can't taunt" as the mob beats on someone else (typically turns on the rogue - me!). They have some other ways to get and keep aggro that will lock it pretty well. They need to learn that.
Wherever I go - there I am.
I think rangers should lose taunt because a ranger really really really really shouldnt tank as i've as heard and expierenced. Unless there are certain situations where the warrior,sk,paladin dies a ranger should'nt be tanking ...... period. One other exception is that if your level 40 and the tank is still in banded armor (dont say newbs aren't still around) . I swear,i had a tank in my group who was using a mix of bronze/banded armor and was dual weilding WotFS. Needless to say i tanked that LDoN.
All classes should know how to (be able to) get agro and how to avoid it. There are so many different situations you come into, when this knowledge can save your group/raid 
/agree Cobra
Playing a rogue, at low-mid levels (10-30) I used to intentionally gain aggro all the time to get nasties off the casters, or off the MT if the healers were OOM. But this was a while back. Our puller would just announce the number coming: 1, 2, 3, or lots. Its sort of like how rabbits count in Watership Down.
Anyhow, at higher levels (50+) things are far more orderly, or we wipe quickly. Puller usually brings one or two or we wipe. Chanter mezes all adds, or we wipe. If I'm trying to pry a mob off a cleric, its more likely I will accidentally break the mez that (darn well) better be about to land - and get the cleric killed - then I am to quickly gain aggro and save the cleric. If I trust the chanter, I know the mez will land and don't worry about it. If I don't trust the chanter, I'm not sure they will call a mez, thus I'm not going to accidentally break it. If the runaway mob is the main mob, I usually don't have enough aggro to turn it around because I have been evading the whole time. Sure, occasionally I do pull the mob off our slower if slow lands a bit too soon and the MT has not enough aggro, but virtually always it is the MT who turns it around. I might see that I got hit once or twice on occasion, but usually when I investigate that was just a riposte or something.
So ya, aggro is everybody's job. Everyone should know what they can do to either maximize or minimize aggro, and when to do so. But - in the later game it usually winds up that one person is maximizing it and everyone else is just trying to minimize it but still do their job.
Playing a rogue, at low-mid levels (10-30) I used to intentionally gain aggro all the time to get nasties off the casters, or off the MT if the healers were OOM. But this was a while back. Our puller would just announce the number coming: 1, 2, 3, or lots. Its sort of like how rabbits count in Watership Down.
Anyhow, at higher levels (50+) things are far more orderly, or we wipe quickly. Puller usually brings one or two or we wipe. Chanter mezes all adds, or we wipe. If I'm trying to pry a mob off a cleric, its more likely I will accidentally break the mez that (darn well) better be about to land - and get the cleric killed - then I am to quickly gain aggro and save the cleric. If I trust the chanter, I know the mez will land and don't worry about it. If I don't trust the chanter, I'm not sure they will call a mez, thus I'm not going to accidentally break it. If the runaway mob is the main mob, I usually don't have enough aggro to turn it around because I have been evading the whole time. Sure, occasionally I do pull the mob off our slower if slow lands a bit too soon and the MT has not enough aggro, but virtually always it is the MT who turns it around. I might see that I got hit once or twice on occasion, but usually when I investigate that was just a riposte or something.
So ya, aggro is everybody's job. Everyone should know what they can do to either maximize or minimize aggro, and when to do so. But - in the later game it usually winds up that one person is maximizing it and everyone else is just trying to minimize it but still do their job.
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