This is partially in response to reading Osmodiar's post:
crushbone- home to some of the worst players in the game
I am curious of your thoughts on the Battle Cleric. I for one have very much enjoyed playing the Cleric in the past. And have at times, when in the right group, played the "battle cleric".
But, I know how frustrating it can be when players don't play a class "the way its supposed to be played".
So...when I recently rerolled on SZ, and thought about resurrecting my cleric I instead made a Paladin. What I see as the true Battle Cleric. I would think that most people would see this as the way to go for those who like the cleric and still wish to run into the fight swinging. But, at the same time, whos to say how a certain class must be played. Granted that those who choose not to play it "as theyre supposed to" will be left groupless and...unliked? But whos to say?
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Your thoughts on the Battle ClericFollow
Who is to say? The players who fun is ruined by having unnecessary death.
I play paladins and a cleric. And have played a mage shaman and rangers to have a feel for the class.
Being a battle cleric has its time and place and can work depending group make up. Courtin was tanking in dsp when partnered with shaman and her pet. backed off when mob was rooted by her and let her rot while I healed pet and myself. Then went back in to finish it off. I was also tank/puller briefly with a gang of finger wrigglers. All i had to do was get the mobs attention.
However as a cleric in a group I have only had one death, not counting group wipes.
But as you say sooner or later a bad cleric will no longer get groups. But the sad thing is how many will die and have their fun reduced until the rep gets around.
I play paladins and a cleric. And have played a mage shaman and rangers to have a feel for the class.
Being a battle cleric has its time and place and can work depending group make up. Courtin was tanking in dsp when partnered with shaman and her pet. backed off when mob was rooted by her and let her rot while I healed pet and myself. Then went back in to finish it off. I was also tank/puller briefly with a gang of finger wrigglers. All i had to do was get the mobs attention.
However as a cleric in a group I have only had one death, not counting group wipes.
But as you say sooner or later a bad cleric will no longer get groups. But the sad thing is how many will die and have their fun reduced until the rep gets around.
I think the point is basically, if you agree at the start of a group to play the cleric in such a way then go ahead, be the battle cleric, the only problem with this is that not many of the groups will agree to this, they wan tto be healed, rezzed, and hit with HP/AC buffs, so its ok to play the battle cleric, but its not ok to expect you will get to do it a lot.
With regard to being a battle cleric, while it is certainly possible to play a battle cleric early on (I have a dwf cleric at 18 that can do fairly good damage), it is not really possible as you advance. I was playing with my daughter in Rathe last week (she has a 45 cleric and I was playing 46 pally) against Hill Giants - I would tank and she would heal and occasionally nuke, we dropped about 10 HGs in a row with little problem before getting a HG add that targeted clc - she gated out with 35% health since neither one of us could get a root to stick while being bashed by HGs. I managed to kill one but had to use LOH and then was rescued when someone else grabbed the 2nd HG after I was down to 10% health and yelling for help.
The problems with a Battle cleric in a LDON group is that the cleric is normally the main healer (and if not is usually back up healer and helping nuke) and hitting mobs is both inefficient (rarely hit in my experience and little damage for level) and will result in the cleric not medding enough. If you want to fight first and heal 2nd, you are looking at the class description for the pally. Unless the cleric is at full mana, assisting the MT is going to have an impact down the road on the group's health.
On the other hand, if you are going to solo, by all means be a battle cleric if you feel like it. It is with groups that you are going to get people upset if you can't keep up your healing.
The problems with a Battle cleric in a LDON group is that the cleric is normally the main healer (and if not is usually back up healer and helping nuke) and hitting mobs is both inefficient (rarely hit in my experience and little damage for level) and will result in the cleric not medding enough. If you want to fight first and heal 2nd, you are looking at the class description for the pally. Unless the cleric is at full mana, assisting the MT is going to have an impact down the road on the group's health.
On the other hand, if you are going to solo, by all means be a battle cleric if you feel like it. It is with groups that you are going to get people upset if you can't keep up your healing.
There are not many times when I can do more damage in melee than by nuking. I hit for around 100-150 and bash for anything up to 80ish. I nuke for 1100 upwards. Clerics have low skill caps for melee and don't get double attack or any of the other skills that make melee worthwhile.
I don't melee unless with friends as it disconcerts people. However there are times when bashing can interrupt casters and the group is doing well enough that healing is minimal and I get the chance to shake out the silly hammer.
However all the time there is that uncomfortable feeling that if anything goes wrong - even if you haven't meleed for the last few fights - then it will be "because the idiot cleric meleed instead of medding". And Woe betide you if you go OOM.
I also hate meleeing with the Water Sprinkler because I am afraid of breaking it - stupid I know.
I don't melee unless with friends as it disconcerts people. However there are times when bashing can interrupt casters and the group is doing well enough that healing is minimal and I get the chance to shake out the silly hammer.
However all the time there is that uncomfortable feeling that if anything goes wrong - even if you haven't meleed for the last few fights - then it will be "because the idiot cleric meleed instead of medding". And Woe betide you if you go OOM.
I also hate meleeing with the Water Sprinkler because I am afraid of breaking it - stupid I know.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Nelchael wrote:
when in the right group, played the "battle cleric".
i think that right there sums it up rather well. i have no issue with clerics, or any class for that matter using some of the less common skills/spells/abilities as long as they can still perform their main task, and that of a cleric is to heal and keep the group alive.
i have lost count how many times even in 55+ hunts that our cleric would jump in with their hammer(s) and deal a fair amount of damage, hit with stunns and even draw a little bit of agro now and then just because they want a change of pace.
in a group that knows each other well, normaly guild groups for me, this is never an issue. i can see it a major bit of stress for pickup groups though as you have not had time to build a strong repour with the other players, thier personal abilities as a player, etc.
so yes in the right group and setting i think its great for ANY class to play a little different then 'normal'.
It is fine. I love to see caster classes get into the fray and smack some mobs...I like watching them scream for help as they are bashed into the ground after they somehow gain agro. Probably because I stopped attacking but who knows.
Short answer, play your damn class.
Long answer, in farm groups or not so serious grind times play around. If I am trying to get xp do your job and I'll do mine.
Short answer, play your damn class.
Long answer, in farm groups or not so serious grind times play around. If I am trying to get xp do your job and I'll do mine.
I've a cleric friend who is often up there with us, with hammer in hand and a Yaulp on his lips. Or Yaulp V, anyway. Great guy... he's rarely out of mana aside from frantic overpulls and I'd trust him to heal me damn near anywhere. Really, it's the cleric's job to keep the party alive. So long as he does so and isn't crying "OoM!" then I couldn't care less if he's sitting, meleeing or doing an interpretive dance. Healing can be a pretty boring job and there's no reason not to liven it up on occassion.
If the cleric needs to sit to have the mana to maintain the pull rate then he should be sitting. But, in my view, the cleric's real job is to heal, not to sit on his *** and I wouldn't start getting huffy with the "do your job" bit until he failed at healing.
If the cleric needs to sit to have the mana to maintain the pull rate then he should be sitting. But, in my view, the cleric's real job is to heal, not to sit on his *** and I wouldn't start getting huffy with the "do your job" bit until he failed at healing.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I play a cleric, level 42. I do not play him as a battle cleric in a group. In group situations, the group should have people to tank and to deal damage. When I am not healing or buffing I am medding, with the exception of a rare root and pacy. I actually will cast a stun if a caster is giving the group a hard time but that is for the stun not damage. even if mana is good, I need to keep myself from getting agro.
This weekend I grouped with my son's warrior and a pally friend of ours who has a 65 cleric. He sat back and healed us in the burning woods (one of my few actual PL like situations). He told me to go ahead and deal damage. While it was fun, it was very obvious why we heal and do not fight....we are actually pretty puny compared to the melee classes. Until lvl 20 I could melee with anyone, but now I just plink the mob. even my blast spells are not what the more pure casters have. unless the mob is undead, then my DOT is pretty nice.
I understand the desire to tank, or deal casting damage, but in a group you need to play your roles, in my opinion. even if the mana is there, why risk drawing agro (has anyone noticed that whenever a creture is rooted it will hit the cleric, even if that cleric is not the one who rooted him?).
If you are a cleric and want to tank, create a warrior or pally as an alt...that is why we can create 8 characters.
This weekend I grouped with my son's warrior and a pally friend of ours who has a 65 cleric. He sat back and healed us in the burning woods (one of my few actual PL like situations). He told me to go ahead and deal damage. While it was fun, it was very obvious why we heal and do not fight....we are actually pretty puny compared to the melee classes. Until lvl 20 I could melee with anyone, but now I just plink the mob. even my blast spells are not what the more pure casters have. unless the mob is undead, then my DOT is pretty nice.
I understand the desire to tank, or deal casting damage, but in a group you need to play your roles, in my opinion. even if the mana is there, why risk drawing agro (has anyone noticed that whenever a creture is rooted it will hit the cleric, even if that cleric is not the one who rooted him?).
If you are a cleric and want to tank, create a warrior or pally as an alt...that is why we can create 8 characters.
Playing a cleric myself I usually only melee at LDoN if I am either full of mana or everybody fights blues and is on 90-100% health.
As I have a faible for small groups I sometimes team up with 1 or 2 other players and go to WC or OoM on which occasions it works great to do fulltime melee.
So I can only advise every other cleric who wants to "battle" to play in small groups from time to time where you are not only allowed but expected to swing your hammer :)
As I have a faible for small groups I sometimes team up with 1 or 2 other players and go to WC or OoM on which occasions it works great to do fulltime melee.
So I can only advise every other cleric who wants to "battle" to play in small groups from time to time where you are not only allowed but expected to swing your hammer :)
A battle cleric is certainly feasible in the very low end and the high end of the game.
In the high end you get some nifty Yaulp Line spells that give impressive mana regen even while fighting.
Yaulp 5 @ 56
CLR/56 1: Increase ATK by 50
3: Increase DEX by 75
5: Increase Attack Speed by 25%
6: Increase Mana by 10 per tick
Yaulp 6
CLR/65 1: Increase ATK by 60
3: Increase DEX by 90
5: Increase Attack Speed by 30%
6: Increase Mana by 12 per tick
So with these and your summoned hammers you can actualy do an OK amount of damage (30-40 dps.. my low DPS pally does 60-80 dps for comparison). Many times you are still better off nuking but hey its kinda fun to swing your hammer and see 3-4 procs in a row. As long as you keep Y5 or Y6 up your mana is usualy ok.
The lvl 63 summoned hammer is..
Damage: 14 Delay: 18
+ Bane Undead 12 (26/18 vs undead)
AC: +10 Dex: +25 Wis: +10 Magic Resist: +5 HP: +65 Mana: +65
Weapon Skill: One Hand Blunt
Classes: Cleric
Races: All Races
Last updated: Tue Feb 24 02:51:57 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Effect: Hand of the Gods
1: Decrease Hitpoints by 75 to 150 (random)
Type: Combat
Level for Effect: 63
In the high end you get some nifty Yaulp Line spells that give impressive mana regen even while fighting.
Yaulp 5 @ 56
CLR/56 1: Increase ATK by 50
3: Increase DEX by 75
5: Increase Attack Speed by 25%
6: Increase Mana by 10 per tick
Yaulp 6
CLR/65 1: Increase ATK by 60
3: Increase DEX by 90
5: Increase Attack Speed by 30%
6: Increase Mana by 12 per tick
So with these and your summoned hammers you can actualy do an OK amount of damage (30-40 dps.. my low DPS pally does 60-80 dps for comparison). Many times you are still better off nuking but hey its kinda fun to swing your hammer and see 3-4 procs in a row. As long as you keep Y5 or Y6 up your mana is usualy ok.
The lvl 63 summoned hammer is..
Damage: 14 Delay: 18
+ Bane Undead 12 (26/18 vs undead)
AC: +10 Dex: +25 Wis: +10 Magic Resist: +5 HP: +65 Mana: +65
Weapon Skill: One Hand Blunt
Classes: Cleric
Races: All Races
Last updated: Tue Feb 24 02:51:57 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Effect: Hand of the Gods
1: Decrease Hitpoints by 75 to 150 (random)
Type: Combat
Level for Effect: 63
25 posts
Hmm, well its up to the player how he wants to play his class and if he's good at it let him. I play with lots of 65's in ldon, and i can say that if we do a normal i get to become "battle cleric", unless i have to heal more then twice a fight. Yaulp gives me back enough mana to be Fm almost the entire dungeon while melee'ing my way through it, hammer procs enough to say i'm doing a nuke per fight which isn't bad for no mana cost. So why not melee some(damage cap 100).
Just do that and I'll sit back down, pretty distraught on how my group wasn't able to hold aggro from me an my lil hammer...hehe i usually get excited to draw a lil aggro in melee.
But ya cleric main job is to heal if he goes oom while melee'ing he shouldn't have been doing that.
Quote:
It is fine. I love to see caster classes get into the fray and smack some mobs...I like watching them scream for help as they are bashed into the ground after they somehow gain agro. Probably because I stopped attacking but who knows.
Just do that and I'll sit back down, pretty distraught on how my group wasn't able to hold aggro from me an my lil hammer...hehe i usually get excited to draw a lil aggro in melee.
But ya cleric main job is to heal if he goes oom while melee'ing he shouldn't have been doing that.
I'm with Jophiel...as long as the cleric isn't going OOM because he's not medding, I see no reason why he shouldn't play battle cleric now and then, and several good reasons why he SHOULD.
1) Clerics need to have their defensive skills maxed out. They WILL get aggro from heals, but jumping into melee, particularly at lower levels, will help them get that defensive skill maxed out sooner.
2) Getting those offensive skills up doesn't hurt either. Bash in particular is a good skill for a cleric to practice, so he can interrupt casters without using the mana for a stun.
3) Healing DOES get boring, especially in a good group where everyone manages aggro well and the tank has a lot of HP. Would you rather have your healer stay awake by jumping into the battle to help out, or by cybering someone while you're fighting? =P
1) Clerics need to have their defensive skills maxed out. They WILL get aggro from heals, but jumping into melee, particularly at lower levels, will help them get that defensive skill maxed out sooner.
2) Getting those offensive skills up doesn't hurt either. Bash in particular is a good skill for a cleric to practice, so he can interrupt casters without using the mana for a stun.
3) Healing DOES get boring, especially in a good group where everyone manages aggro well and the tank has a lot of HP. Would you rather have your healer stay awake by jumping into the battle to help out, or by cybering someone while you're fighting? =P
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I actually will cast a stun if a caster is giving the group a hard time but that is for the stun not damage. even if mana is good, I need to keep myself from getting agro.
If you, as a meleeing cleric (without dual wield or double attack), can pull aggro off the tank then there's bigger problems than whether you should be playing battle cleric or not.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
It is fine. I love to see caster classes get into the fray and smack some mobs...I like watching them scream for help as they are bashed into the ground after they somehow gain agro. Probably because I stopped attacking but who knows.
yeah because i am sure the others in the group besides you and the cleric are happy to see 2 people not doing there jobs instead of just the cleric not doing his and makeing it more likely for them to get wiped as well
2 wrongs dont make a right
but
3 rights will make a left
Edited, Mon Mar 15 17:03:42 2004 by mkbailey
Got my Cleric to 38 lastnight and I love to get in and melee as often as I can, with him.
But I'll only do it, after the group has been together for a while and I see how we are functioning. If it's a good group and I'm able to stay close to full mana, even after buffing and healing, then I'll jump in and bash a few Mobs. No use sitting on my ***, when I'm full mana. When the MT needs healing I just target, step out of melee and heal.
But then if it's your average pick-up group, I'll spend most of my time medding and trying to keep the less gifted, alive... <sigh>
Being able to Battle Cleric, realy does depend on how good the group is...
Long answer: I'm keeping everyone buffed with all my Cleric buffs. I'm keeping everyone healed and alive, even on those accidental "big pulls". I'm not going oom and when/if I do drop low on mana I am sitting on my *** a medding to Full Mana.
I'm also getting in and meleeing and casting stun and such and very rarely drawing agro. You play your character the way you like and I'll play my character the way I like, but don't ever tell me what I can and can't do, because it's not the normal way the class should be played. If my play style bothers you, the zone exit is over there, please feel free to leave the group.
Edited, Mon Mar 15 18:49:10 2004 by lagduff
But I'll only do it, after the group has been together for a while and I see how we are functioning. If it's a good group and I'm able to stay close to full mana, even after buffing and healing, then I'll jump in and bash a few Mobs. No use sitting on my ***, when I'm full mana. When the MT needs healing I just target, step out of melee and heal.
But then if it's your average pick-up group, I'll spend most of my time medding and trying to keep the less gifted, alive... <sigh>
Being able to Battle Cleric, realy does depend on how good the group is...
Quote:
Long answer, in farm groups or not so serious grind times play around. If I am trying to get xp do your job and I'll do mine.
Long answer: I'm keeping everyone buffed with all my Cleric buffs. I'm keeping everyone healed and alive, even on those accidental "big pulls". I'm not going oom and when/if I do drop low on mana I am sitting on my *** a medding to Full Mana.
I'm also getting in and meleeing and casting stun and such and very rarely drawing agro. You play your character the way you like and I'll play my character the way I like, but don't ever tell me what I can and can't do, because it's not the normal way the class should be played. If my play style bothers you, the zone exit is over there, please feel free to leave the group.
Edited, Mon Mar 15 18:49:10 2004 by lagduff
My main is a Paladin. To me, a nice compromise between a warrior and a healer. A healer normally is doing just that. Healing. A warrior is pretty much dependent on healers.
Having said that, I'm sure that for some clerics, it has to be a little boring to just stand up, heal, sit down, buff, wash rinse repeat.
If the group isn't at risk by a cleric doing so, I think it's great for a cleric to smack stuff. As others have said, there are times and places where it isn't a great idea, but if it enhances the player's enjoyment, it's all good.
I do a lot of LDON's with a Battle Cleric. Usually have a necro and chanter along. And when possible a Shammy. I'm always mindful that my cleric is up there swinging away, so I pay more attention to group HP. I help out by casting Healing Wave of Prexus when prudent to do so.
I think the key is that when your cleric is fighting, the group needs to keep that in mind. He/she shouldn't be getting aggro, and they know when to switch roles. In a way it's good because the group members have to focus a little more on the big picture. Makes everyone play a little more diversely.
Just my $.02
Having said that, I'm sure that for some clerics, it has to be a little boring to just stand up, heal, sit down, buff, wash rinse repeat.
If the group isn't at risk by a cleric doing so, I think it's great for a cleric to smack stuff. As others have said, there are times and places where it isn't a great idea, but if it enhances the player's enjoyment, it's all good.
I do a lot of LDON's with a Battle Cleric. Usually have a necro and chanter along. And when possible a Shammy. I'm always mindful that my cleric is up there swinging away, so I pay more attention to group HP. I help out by casting Healing Wave of Prexus when prudent to do so.
I think the key is that when your cleric is fighting, the group needs to keep that in mind. He/she shouldn't be getting aggro, and they know when to switch roles. In a way it's good because the group members have to focus a little more on the big picture. Makes everyone play a little more diversely.
Just my $.02
Personally I recommend you play a Paladin. They get a lot of fun spells and have great fighting abilities and sounds more like the class you're looking to play.
When SOE made the classes (that was probably actually Verant or even 989, but you get my point), they all had a "purpose". When you play a class in a way to which it's purpose doesn't support, you end up being mostly ineffective. In this case it's better to pick a class that is effective in the way you want to play for the best results.
In the end you can do what you want, but people expect certain things of certain classes. They aren't wrong to expect these things as what they are expecting is generally the purpose of the class.
I guess you just want to be different, like everyone else.
Seriously though, as I said above, you should pick a class that is effective in the way you want to play, otherwise you won't have the most fun experience you could have and might even hurt other people's experiences. Very soon the "Battle Cleric" tactics just won't be effective as they can be in the lower levels. You'll either end up playing ineffectively, or being unhappy having to learn to play the class the way it was meant to be played.
When SOE made the classes (that was probably actually Verant or even 989, but you get my point), they all had a "purpose". When you play a class in a way to which it's purpose doesn't support, you end up being mostly ineffective. In this case it's better to pick a class that is effective in the way you want to play for the best results.
In the end you can do what you want, but people expect certain things of certain classes. They aren't wrong to expect these things as what they are expecting is generally the purpose of the class.
I guess you just want to be different, like everyone else.
Seriously though, as I said above, you should pick a class that is effective in the way you want to play, otherwise you won't have the most fun experience you could have and might even hurt other people's experiences. Very soon the "Battle Cleric" tactics just won't be effective as they can be in the lower levels. You'll either end up playing ineffectively, or being unhappy having to learn to play the class the way it was meant to be played.
I have tried a battle cleric - here's the best way to do it.
1. Race - Dwarves seem to make the best battle clerics due to their stats. Halflings seem to be a close second, followed by Humans. I would not suggest high elves, gnomes, or (ugh) erudites.
2. Start from the begining - keep your weapon skills up and your offense and defense skills up as best you can. All of your basic combat stats should be at least 75 (str, dex, agi, sta).
3. Wear Plate - this may seem obvious, but your best bet is plate. I would suggest for a starter Gothic or a combination of Gothic and sandblasted - you can get other stuff if you can find it, but the gothic seems pretty common enough.
4. Fight Undead - when possible, in a group or soloing, your best bet is to fight undead. Remember, "battle" doesn't mean that you have to tank from start to finish. You are no less "battling" the mob if you root it, nuke it a bit, then run up and bash it to goo. The reason to go for undead is the fact that your abilities are best for those types of mobs. Rangers don't fight undead, they fight animals, since thats what their abilities are best suited for.
5. Go anon/role - Ok, I don't actually condone this - and be careful if you do, however most clerics could pass off as a paladin if anon. More experienced players should be able to tell by your lack of bow for pulling, or that you have less hp, or that your not bashing, but newer players may not. Being temped and saying your not temped could further the charade.
6. Try to group more than one cleric - to me this is the best way. If you have two clerics then there is no reason one can't get into the fray - saving mana for back up heals.
7. Finally - know your limits - your still a cleric - if you've ever played D2 and tried a battle-socorceress, you'll know that its not an easy combination - learn to use your abilities to augment your combat, you want synergy.
actually I guess finally is have fun. you may feel your best bet to do this is the FV server, they can't hate your for roleplaying there
1. Race - Dwarves seem to make the best battle clerics due to their stats. Halflings seem to be a close second, followed by Humans. I would not suggest high elves, gnomes, or (ugh) erudites.
2. Start from the begining - keep your weapon skills up and your offense and defense skills up as best you can. All of your basic combat stats should be at least 75 (str, dex, agi, sta).
3. Wear Plate - this may seem obvious, but your best bet is plate. I would suggest for a starter Gothic or a combination of Gothic and sandblasted - you can get other stuff if you can find it, but the gothic seems pretty common enough.
4. Fight Undead - when possible, in a group or soloing, your best bet is to fight undead. Remember, "battle" doesn't mean that you have to tank from start to finish. You are no less "battling" the mob if you root it, nuke it a bit, then run up and bash it to goo. The reason to go for undead is the fact that your abilities are best for those types of mobs. Rangers don't fight undead, they fight animals, since thats what their abilities are best suited for.
5. Go anon/role - Ok, I don't actually condone this - and be careful if you do, however most clerics could pass off as a paladin if anon. More experienced players should be able to tell by your lack of bow for pulling, or that you have less hp, or that your not bashing, but newer players may not. Being temped and saying your not temped could further the charade.
6. Try to group more than one cleric - to me this is the best way. If you have two clerics then there is no reason one can't get into the fray - saving mana for back up heals.
7. Finally - know your limits - your still a cleric - if you've ever played D2 and tried a battle-socorceress, you'll know that its not an easy combination - learn to use your abilities to augment your combat, you want synergy.
actually I guess finally is have fun. you may feel your best bet to do this is the FV server, they can't hate your for roleplaying there
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When you play a class in a way to which it's purpose doesn't support, you end up being mostly ineffective
In fact, SOE's Visiontm of the cleric does involve some melee; the new cleric hammers, mana regenning Yaulp V+ spells, Bash ability, etc were all part of the "Priest Revamps" and intended to give clerics some additional melee capacity and make them more enjoyable to play.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
In fact, SOE's Visiontm of the cleric does involve some melee; the new cleric hammers, mana regenning Yaulp V+ spells, Bash ability, etc were all part of the "Priest Revamps" and intended to give clerics some additional melee capacity and make them more enjoyable to play.
Now if the Vision would just allow for Shamans to get snare so I can more easily run around and dot things while sow'ed
A Cleric's true strengths come from its spells and it lacks any true ability to cause serious damage through melee alone. When a cleric is using it's spells it is being more effective than it ever could be without.
At lower levels it's fine for a cleric to melee, at the higher levels it's really not acceptable. If you want to play that way you're better off as a Paladin. A cleric needs to med for mana and if they are melee fighting, they are obviously not medding, nor are they even doing a reasonable amount of damage. If a Cleric wishes to do damage, their nukes are a lot more effective. Once again you get back to using your spells if you want to be effective.
At lower levels it's fine for a cleric to melee, at the higher levels it's really not acceptable. If you want to play that way you're better off as a Paladin. A cleric needs to med for mana and if they are melee fighting, they are obviously not medding, nor are they even doing a reasonable amount of damage. If a Cleric wishes to do damage, their nukes are a lot more effective. Once again you get back to using your spells if you want to be effective.
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5. Go anon/role - Ok, I don't actually condone this - and be careful if you do, however most clerics could pass off as a paladin if anon. More experienced players should be able to tell by your lack of bow for pulling, or that you have less hp, or that your not bashing, but newer players may not. Being temped and saying your not temped could further the charade.
I have to say this is truly poor advice. Never, ever lie to your group about your class. You will be found out and your reputation will suffer greatly.
If you find it necessary to masquerade as a paladin in order to melee then for god's sake roll a paladin.
This is not to say I agree with the "just sit at the back and med" school. Just that you should not need to lie or mislead people about it.
Wherever I go - there I am.
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At lower levels it's fine for a cleric to melee, at the higher levels it's really not acceptable
A cleric only needs to med for mana if.. well, if they need to med for mana. I don't have my friend's Magelo or anything, but I know he at least has an EotS and a EF BP with a FT2 aug. He may have more FT.. dunno. I assume he has at least some of the MC AA's. I play a bard so he has Marr going most of the time. He grabs a KEI before we get started and is Yaulp'ing during combat. In short, unless things get hairy, he really doesn't need to med to maintain his mana rate. When he does need to med, he's smart enough to sit down. He could nuke, but then again cleric nukes aren't exactly mana efficent whereas meleeing and hammer procs are free damage.
I'm certainly not putting forth that a cleric should always be in the thick of battle. It's definately situational. But saying it's "not acceptable" for a cleric to melee when mana is fine and mana regen is fine is pretty arrogant. Again, I say the cleric's main job is to heal. Maybe he has a role in pulling with the lull line or is stunning casters or whatever. But so long as he can do what he's there to do, I couldn't care less if he's sitting or standing.
Edited, Tue Mar 16 02:06:14 2004 by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
i still consider myself a newby and so take this with a grain of salt but when you are invited to a group just ask what is expected of you if you can live with playing that roll then stay if not then move on
now being a cleric people might think that would be an odd question but usually they will tell you that you are on healing duty unless they have another cleric or a druid who has comparable healing spells
all you have to do is ask if they mind that you melee a bit as long as things are going alright
most probably wont mind unless they start to feel uncomfortable with the amounts that their hp is dropping then they might just want you to sit again
if you cant handle this then my suggestion would be to sit build up your mana heal them and buff and tell them that after next pull or whatever then you need to move on
most will be ok with that and as long as you leave them buffed and healed and those that arent then oh well you didnt have to be there to begin with
having said all that even if you get the ok to melee and even if there is another cleric who is responsible for healing you should still be keeping your eyes on the hp bars because the cleric is a healer and you never know if the other is starting to go LD and you dont want your first indication to be seeing one of your partners corpses falling to the ground and having him send you a tell asking why you didnt help heal him
now being a cleric people might think that would be an odd question but usually they will tell you that you are on healing duty unless they have another cleric or a druid who has comparable healing spells
all you have to do is ask if they mind that you melee a bit as long as things are going alright
most probably wont mind unless they start to feel uncomfortable with the amounts that their hp is dropping then they might just want you to sit again
if you cant handle this then my suggestion would be to sit build up your mana heal them and buff and tell them that after next pull or whatever then you need to move on
most will be ok with that and as long as you leave them buffed and healed and those that arent then oh well you didnt have to be there to begin with
having said all that even if you get the ok to melee and even if there is another cleric who is responsible for healing you should still be keeping your eyes on the hp bars because the cleric is a healer and you never know if the other is starting to go LD and you dont want your first indication to be seeing one of your partners corpses falling to the ground and having him send you a tell asking why you didnt help heal him
oh yeah i agree with the guy who said dont lie
thats just a general life rule in my opinion and if you are lying and claiming to be a pally you might as well be one to begin with
thats just a general life rule in my opinion and if you are lying and claiming to be a pally you might as well be one to begin with
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