This has been stressed before but since I am about to enter LDoN next WE with my 20th lvl cleric and Iwant some honest opinions on how I plan to play her:
1. I stay out of combat and heal (as PH I suppose)
2. If no one else is able to I do my lame pacify prior to pulling
3. I give the group tells for 1/2 1/4 and OOM - also giving the number of HP I can still heal (figured the amount roughly out)
4. If OOM I will meditate except for 2 occacions:
a)If there are too much blue (yellow makes no sense) mobs to handle for the MT I will tank (My AC and HP are just mediocre for 20 but I have my 1HB maxed out)
b)If a mob close-engages/nukes-from-afar one of the casters and the tanks are already busy I will engage/stun this mob.
5. I will not memorize Gate but instead the spell that gives me invulnerability for 18 secs because this could also prove usefull in corpse recovery (be it my own or somone else's) if a rez is not available.
One thing I am VERY unsure of is chain stunning caster mobs that are nuking the already engaged tanks from a distance. My experience so far is that they will choose me as a target sooner or later but not come into attack range.
Another thing I am not sure of is how far I should use mana on buffs for the tanks and myself (as a reserve-tank) during the adventure. Giving every mellee 1-2 buffs will drain my manapool completely and force me to med for 3-4 min in the middle of the adventure.
Any hints, tips or corrections will be appreciated.
Edited, Tue Mar 9 04:36:22 2004 by Leiany
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3 posts
Your plan sounds good....I have played my cleric on 20+ LDON adventures now, and I use similar methods. My opinion however in response to the not medding and tanking on large mobs....Don't tank unless you can not avoid it...Med up...It's more important to get that heal on your tank then to not have the mana when you really need it most. Tanking in small mobs with 50% or more mana isn't a bad idea and helps increase your skills quite well....I do it often. So, in my opinion, Don't tank in large mobs unless you have a full mana bar. If you tank, you also run the risk of aggro, and what happens to the group if the Primary Healer gets into trouble....or worse..dies? Not good....lol...I've had it happen myself. Anyway, Your method sounds well planned. Good luck to you and have fun :)
Vaelenwolfe
Vaelenwolfe
Well, I just intend to tank if p.e. there are 5 (for whatever reason) dark-blue or white mobs and only 2 tanks. If there is another healer in the group it may be more efficient if I take one of the odd mobs instead of having the tanks beaten up consecutively but that depends on situation I suppose.
3 posts
Sounds good...It's always nice to have a secondary healer :)...Also just FYI, If you don't have them all ready, Celestial Remedy, and Celestial Health can be found in Shadowhaven. Buy them from Daekos Ferinsalo....you get Celestial Remedy at lvl 19 and I've found its nice to have on hand at times.
just checked the stats of celestial remedy =)
very good advice - I didn't know about that one!
very good advice - I didn't know about that one!
Scholar
29 posts
Some tips...
1) The celestial spells are good for aggro management in that they spread the healing over a period of time (hence Heal Over Time - HOT), but are less efficient (in terms of how much mana you use vs how much healing they give) than your "main" healing spells at the same level. It's sensible to have both memmed, possibly with a third lesser heal for the tissue-paper casters where your normal heal will be excessive.
2) Don't heal Necromancers until they get to about thirty percent health, but tell them that before the adventure. They have a lifetap spell which will heal themselves, and they routinely sacrifice health for mana (as do Shaman).
3) Especially in Mistmoore, watch for Poision and Disease messages. I've tried to get groups to say "poisoned" and "diseased" in group chat but it's not always successful. The only thing to do is keep an eye on the spam and look for the messages.
4) If you are below 100% mana, you should be medding. If you are at 100% mana, you should be casting. (assuming you're primary healer). If nobody needs healing, then (especially in MM with undead), nuke the mob, then get back to medding. I only ever melee if the other option is someone less able to take it getting beat upon. If you have an enchanter or bard with you, then you should never ever have to melee.
5) Ask the tank how many HP they have post-buffing. This will give you an idea at what point they could do with being healed, given you know how much your heal does (this is valid until you get CHeal at 39). The worst thing you can do (well, other than rooting yourself, attempting to heal the mob, then accidently gating out) is to over-heal someone - you've wasted mana then.
6) Don't be afraid to call for a medbreak if you're getting low on mana during the course of an adventure. Whilst people do get itchy feet, they get even more annoyed when they die.
1) The celestial spells are good for aggro management in that they spread the healing over a period of time (hence Heal Over Time - HOT), but are less efficient (in terms of how much mana you use vs how much healing they give) than your "main" healing spells at the same level. It's sensible to have both memmed, possibly with a third lesser heal for the tissue-paper casters where your normal heal will be excessive.
2) Don't heal Necromancers until they get to about thirty percent health, but tell them that before the adventure. They have a lifetap spell which will heal themselves, and they routinely sacrifice health for mana (as do Shaman).
3) Especially in Mistmoore, watch for Poision and Disease messages. I've tried to get groups to say "poisoned" and "diseased" in group chat but it's not always successful. The only thing to do is keep an eye on the spam and look for the messages.
4) If you are below 100% mana, you should be medding. If you are at 100% mana, you should be casting. (assuming you're primary healer). If nobody needs healing, then (especially in MM with undead), nuke the mob, then get back to medding. I only ever melee if the other option is someone less able to take it getting beat upon. If you have an enchanter or bard with you, then you should never ever have to melee.
5) Ask the tank how many HP they have post-buffing. This will give you an idea at what point they could do with being healed, given you know how much your heal does (this is valid until you get CHeal at 39). The worst thing you can do (well, other than rooting yourself, attempting to heal the mob, then accidently gating out) is to over-heal someone - you've wasted mana then.
6) Don't be afraid to call for a medbreak if you're getting low on mana during the course of an adventure. Whilst people do get itchy feet, they get even more annoyed when they die.
My advice is don't try to do too much. Heal, med, nuke is about all you should worry about, especially if it's going to be your first few LDoNs.
At level 20's and 30's, mobs die within 5 seconds of arriving camp, there is not even any need to lull mobs. Just let the tank pull the closest/corner mob, there won't be more than 3 mobs per pull if the tank knows what he's doing. As long as he doesn't pull the deepest/center mob from a room and ago the whole room, 2 or 3 mobs pulls are a cake to handle. This is espcially true in Mmc (buterblock) where mobs are half blind. If you must keep the pull size down, lull one or two mobs that are close to the intented target is more than enough.
Edited, Tue Mar 9 07:15:54 2004 by Assailant
At level 20's and 30's, mobs die within 5 seconds of arriving camp, there is not even any need to lull mobs. Just let the tank pull the closest/corner mob, there won't be more than 3 mobs per pull if the tank knows what he's doing. As long as he doesn't pull the deepest/center mob from a room and ago the whole room, 2 or 3 mobs pulls are a cake to handle. This is espcially true in Mmc (buterblock) where mobs are half blind. If you must keep the pull size down, lull one or two mobs that are close to the intented target is more than enough.
Edited, Tue Mar 9 07:15:54 2004 by Assailant
vaelenwolfe wrote:
Sounds good...It's always nice to have a secondary healer :)...Also just FYI, If you don't have them all ready, Celestial Remedy, and Celestial Health can be found in Shadowhaven. Buy them from Daekos Ferinsalo....you get Celestial Remedy at lvl 19 and I've found its nice to have on hand at times.
Any cleric should 100% get these! Heal over Time (HOT) spells are absolutley wonderful, for they minimize aggro compared to "big blast healing spells" like Greater or Superior Healing. From a mana perspective Celestial Remedy heals for about the same amount of damage as 3 Healing spells, but has a mana cost of around 2 Healing spells. Celestial Health heals for 3 Greater Healing, but has a mana cost of approximately 2.
The HOT spells are also useful for stabilizing a tank that may be taking alot of damage, or before engaging a very powerful opponent. If a tank suddenly drops 30-50% hp casting an HOT may keep them at 50% while still incurring additional damage. This allows you to cast the "big blast" healing spells towards the end of the combat sequence, when the tanks have defintely gained sufficient aggro. This stabilization technique also works extremely well when there are two healers in the group...one can stabilize while the other does the positive gain healing.
Casting a HOT spell before engaging a powerful/named opponent is useful, for any damage taken will immidiately be healed. The tank may be able to go a couple of rounds and still be at 100%! No aggro is generated because the healing was done before combat started. In this case the HOT spell can be considered a "short term uber buff."
Don't sell your pacify line of spells short. They will come in very handy for you over time in LDON. Clerics pacify alot.
Also, be prepared to pull if needed. Clerics actually make really good pullers. You can stand at a distance, cast your lowest level nuke (can't remember the name)which has a really low aggro value, and then run back to your group. By the time mob arrives, the MT is standing there to take the aggro.
Also, be prepared to pull if needed. Clerics actually make really good pullers. You can stand at a distance, cast your lowest level nuke (can't remember the name)which has a really low aggro value, and then run back to your group. By the time mob arrives, the MT is standing there to take the aggro.
Scholar
29 posts
Valzarius Defender of Justice wrote:
Any cleric should 100% get these! Heal over Time (HOT) spells are absolutley wonderful, for they minimize aggro compared to "big blast healing spells" like Greater or Superior Healing. From a mana perspective Celestial Remedy heals for about the same amount of damage as 3 Healing spells, but has a mana cost of around 2 Healing spells. Celestial Health heals for 3 Greater Healing, but has a mana cost of approximately 2.
Like most things, it isn't quite that simple.
At Level 19
Celestial Remedy heals for 216 (54per tick, 4 ticks) and costs 150 mana. That's a ratio of 1.44 hps/mana.
Healing heals for 89 hp and costs 60 mana. That's a ratio of 1.48 hps/mana.
At Level 24
Celestial Remedy heals for 235 (59/tick) and still costs 150 - that's a ratio of 1.57.
Greater Healing heals for 288 and costs 150 mana - ratio 1.92.
At 29
Celestial Health heals for 460 (115/tick) and costs 205 - ratio 2.24.
Greater Healing heals for 298 and still costs 150 - ratio 1.99
At 34
Celestial Health is as before
Superior Healing heals for 565 and costs 250 - ratio 2.26.
Put simply, unless aggro is important, between 19 and 28, use your main healing line. Between 29 and 33, use Celestial Health (it's more efficient). After 34 go back to the main healing line.
I think my Maths is ok here...
I don't see any mention of stun or root. Honestly these are better tools for most clerics than meleeing.
Though since you're all level 20ish I suppose it doesn't matter that much. May as well enjoy the melee while you can.
Though since you're all level 20ish I suppose it doesn't matter that much. May as well enjoy the melee while you can.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Someone always has to grab out the calculator... OK the ratios are not 3:2, I stand corrected. Aggro can be a major problem in LDON, especially with multiple pulls. Using HOT is a very useful technique. I'm not proposing that you should ONLY use HOT, but it definitely does have its uses in the correct circumstances.
My advice when in an LDON group is to not tank or nuke. As a healer you are far more valuable healing and medding. Use pacy and root in a pinch, but you should be medding when not healing.
Clerics do not melee well enough to be of real value in that capacity...at 20th you do ok, but each lvl you will fall behind in that capacity. Clerics melee is meant to be decent early and then give way to the healing skills. So if you sit and med, you will do your group a better service.
As for buffing...I usually offer cleric buffs to the entire group upon entering the adv, providing the know that I need to med before we go in and are willing to wait. Otherwise I give them to two tanks. At 41, I cast AoP on myself before travelling to the adv and then keep blessing up on myself and that is it. I do not intend to take any damage and if I do, I expect the tanks to get it off of me, so no valor or symbol on myself. Blessing is the most valuable buff I have for myself because reducing casting time can make a big difference during a bad pull with lots of heals needing to be dolled out to different people.
I only cast Symbol on the tanks. I can't stand it when we are in adventure and the necro or wizzie is asking for symbol halfway through when I am on full-mana conservation. As for the other buffs, I do the same as when we start, I will tell them that if they want me to re-buff them mid adventure they will have to let me med up afterwards...if we are making good time and want to go for the named bosses, sometimes they choose to do that. Usually just the tanks get rebuffed.
Nuking, again, it is not something I choose to do. My mana is for heals not nukes. The only time I am ever seen nuking in an LDON is if we are coming up on 30 min after completion, I have full mana and we only have a cpl of mobs...then I will speed up the kills before the zone collapses. Cleric nukes are not that powerful though. Mana efficiency is on the side of healing, not nuking.
Of course, this is all based on LDON. When I group with my son's warrior and we explore together...I melee and nuke to verying degrees. It is a different situation. No time limit so med breaks are more acceptable...plus he is on the PC next to me so we can verbalize all of our tactics, etc. Generally speaking, in LDON the cleric plays a very specialized role, in other groups they are able to diversify a little bit more.
Clerics do not melee well enough to be of real value in that capacity...at 20th you do ok, but each lvl you will fall behind in that capacity. Clerics melee is meant to be decent early and then give way to the healing skills. So if you sit and med, you will do your group a better service.
As for buffing...I usually offer cleric buffs to the entire group upon entering the adv, providing the know that I need to med before we go in and are willing to wait. Otherwise I give them to two tanks. At 41, I cast AoP on myself before travelling to the adv and then keep blessing up on myself and that is it. I do not intend to take any damage and if I do, I expect the tanks to get it off of me, so no valor or symbol on myself. Blessing is the most valuable buff I have for myself because reducing casting time can make a big difference during a bad pull with lots of heals needing to be dolled out to different people.
I only cast Symbol on the tanks. I can't stand it when we are in adventure and the necro or wizzie is asking for symbol halfway through when I am on full-mana conservation. As for the other buffs, I do the same as when we start, I will tell them that if they want me to re-buff them mid adventure they will have to let me med up afterwards...if we are making good time and want to go for the named bosses, sometimes they choose to do that. Usually just the tanks get rebuffed.
Nuking, again, it is not something I choose to do. My mana is for heals not nukes. The only time I am ever seen nuking in an LDON is if we are coming up on 30 min after completion, I have full mana and we only have a cpl of mobs...then I will speed up the kills before the zone collapses. Cleric nukes are not that powerful though. Mana efficiency is on the side of healing, not nuking.
Of course, this is all based on LDON. When I group with my son's warrior and we explore together...I melee and nuke to verying degrees. It is a different situation. No time limit so med breaks are more acceptable...plus he is on the PC next to me so we can verbalize all of our tactics, etc. Generally speaking, in LDON the cleric plays a very specialized role, in other groups they are able to diversify a little bit more.
Scholar
29 posts
Valzarius Defender of Justice wrote:
Someone always has to grab out the calculator... OK the ratios are not 3:2, I stand corrected. Aggro can be a major problem in LDON, especially with multiple pulls. Using HOT is a very useful technique. I'm not proposing that you should ONLY use HOT, but it definitely does have its uses in the correct circumstances.
Oh, without question. And that's extra true if you don't have crowd control (Enchanters and Bards and some others). If you get a multi-pull that looks like it might get interesting, flinging an early Celestial onto the tank can make things much easier, often meaning that you won't need to heal again until most of the adds have been killed.
Ahh Leiany, twice I tried to type out a lengthy treatise based on my dubious experience as a cleric and twice the post got eaten somewhere along the line.
So here's a condensed version;
Please don't melee in serious groups. You job is to keep everyone alive, if things are going so well and you have time and mana to waste, then you can nuke and stun a little. But most of the time you need to be healing or meditating.
(there is nothing wrong with keeping your melee skills up, in fact you must keep your defensive skills maxed, but do this as a separate thing, go farm for PP with a friend or two where there is no risk of wiping out your party).
The most important skill in being a cleric is learning to prioritise your heal targets and judging the the right moment to heal and which heal spell to use in the situation.
I believe the two most important people in any group are the maint tank and the CC person, these are your highest priority. Some times you are pushed into the dificult situation of having to let someone else die in order to keep these two alive.
The key to being the best cleric is learning how to avoid being trapped into having to make this choice, but sooner or later you will face it.
Putting it another way, if your main tank dies because you were too busy healing one of the melees or a caster, you have failed at your job.
When you are Oom, you always, always med. If you die while meditating, so be it, but to run around trying to do the job that some other group member should be doing is very counter productive. With the right gear you can meditate enough mana to do something useful in a very short space of time, many a Cleric has saved the day by sitting medding, jump up and toss on a tiny heal, sit med, heal again, etc long enough to keep the tank alive and hold the mob untill the Wizzy medded enough mana to finish the mob off.
Learn your spells inside out. You will build up a huge array of useful spells that can be used in a pinch to get your group out of trouble.
Go here http://eq.crgaming.com/ and print out the Cleric spell list and study it. click through to the details and the vendors and learn where to get them all and what they do, they are spread all over Norrath and many of the good ones you need drop from mobs in odd places.
Finally (some condensed version hehe), stunning is a very good tool to learn how to use, but I'm not sure about a Cleric chain stunning in normal circstances (maybe in AoE situations, but that is completely different). You need to work with your main tank when stunning, if you pull aggro away from the MA too often, then you are causing more trouble than it is worth. At low levels most of the tanks you group with are also still learning their trade, so they may not yet be as good at holding aggro as they could be.
At 52 I find that I cannot pull aggro off most tanks with stuns no matter how hard I try (with completre heal it is another matter, lol). This is something you can only learn by trying and gaining experience as it is a judgement call, but if every time you cast a couple of stuns the mob leaves the tank and heads to you and the tank can't instantly turn the mob back to him, then you know that your tank is still struggling with aggro a bit and you shouldn't frustrate him by making it worse.
On the other hand, if you are fighting a caster or worse a healer and there is no Pally in the team, then it is your job to interupt the spell caster. Watch for the "xyz" mob begins to cast a spell message, and then jump up and cast your fastest stun, after a while you will get the feel for doing this and it becomes easy.
Regarding buffs, you must keep your main tank and puller fully buffed. I always try to keep the CCer buffed as well. The others are less important, even myself. There is many a time that I have chosen not to rebuff myself so as to keep the mana/med time under control. As you level you will quickly get to the point where your buffs last longer than a mission so rebuffing mid stream is only an issue after a rez. Most of the time it is in the best interest of the group to let you have the time to rebuff and then med back to full mana.
By the way your Lull/Pacify is not lame, you are equal best in the game with it. Only a Bard can come near to a Cleric/Enchanter in lulling mobs. (And Druids and Rangers everywhere hate you because of it :p).
So here's a condensed version;
Please don't melee in serious groups. You job is to keep everyone alive, if things are going so well and you have time and mana to waste, then you can nuke and stun a little. But most of the time you need to be healing or meditating.
(there is nothing wrong with keeping your melee skills up, in fact you must keep your defensive skills maxed, but do this as a separate thing, go farm for PP with a friend or two where there is no risk of wiping out your party).
The most important skill in being a cleric is learning to prioritise your heal targets and judging the the right moment to heal and which heal spell to use in the situation.
I believe the two most important people in any group are the maint tank and the CC person, these are your highest priority. Some times you are pushed into the dificult situation of having to let someone else die in order to keep these two alive.
The key to being the best cleric is learning how to avoid being trapped into having to make this choice, but sooner or later you will face it.
Putting it another way, if your main tank dies because you were too busy healing one of the melees or a caster, you have failed at your job.
When you are Oom, you always, always med. If you die while meditating, so be it, but to run around trying to do the job that some other group member should be doing is very counter productive. With the right gear you can meditate enough mana to do something useful in a very short space of time, many a Cleric has saved the day by sitting medding, jump up and toss on a tiny heal, sit med, heal again, etc long enough to keep the tank alive and hold the mob untill the Wizzy medded enough mana to finish the mob off.
Learn your spells inside out. You will build up a huge array of useful spells that can be used in a pinch to get your group out of trouble.
Go here http://eq.crgaming.com/ and print out the Cleric spell list and study it. click through to the details and the vendors and learn where to get them all and what they do, they are spread all over Norrath and many of the good ones you need drop from mobs in odd places.
Finally (some condensed version hehe), stunning is a very good tool to learn how to use, but I'm not sure about a Cleric chain stunning in normal circstances (maybe in AoE situations, but that is completely different). You need to work with your main tank when stunning, if you pull aggro away from the MA too often, then you are causing more trouble than it is worth. At low levels most of the tanks you group with are also still learning their trade, so they may not yet be as good at holding aggro as they could be.
At 52 I find that I cannot pull aggro off most tanks with stuns no matter how hard I try (with completre heal it is another matter, lol). This is something you can only learn by trying and gaining experience as it is a judgement call, but if every time you cast a couple of stuns the mob leaves the tank and heads to you and the tank can't instantly turn the mob back to him, then you know that your tank is still struggling with aggro a bit and you shouldn't frustrate him by making it worse.
On the other hand, if you are fighting a caster or worse a healer and there is no Pally in the team, then it is your job to interupt the spell caster. Watch for the "xyz" mob begins to cast a spell message, and then jump up and cast your fastest stun, after a while you will get the feel for doing this and it becomes easy.
Regarding buffs, you must keep your main tank and puller fully buffed. I always try to keep the CCer buffed as well. The others are less important, even myself. There is many a time that I have chosen not to rebuff myself so as to keep the mana/med time under control. As you level you will quickly get to the point where your buffs last longer than a mission so rebuffing mid stream is only an issue after a rez. Most of the time it is in the best interest of the group to let you have the time to rebuff and then med back to full mana.
By the way your Lull/Pacify is not lame, you are equal best in the game with it. Only a Bard can come near to a Cleric/Enchanter in lulling mobs. (And Druids and Rangers everywhere hate you because of it :p).
Pre lvl 20's everyone tanks, Clerics, Enchanters, Wizards, Rogues, Warriors, etc...
Come level 20 casters classes should all be relying on spells. Druids can get away with tanking a little longer(becasue of their damage shields), but should really be kiting or casting too. It is good to keep your defense up, but at this level you should really be learning the classes main purposes.
I have a friend who's been PLing his wife's Druid and at level 39 she's still meleeing mobs with her damage shields up. I don't think she's really been grouped with more than 1 or 2 people at a time and usually while her hubby was helping so I don't think she's learnt her place in a group and I personally wouldn't want to be in the first real group she gets as I doubt she's really ready with all the things she should know. She missed out on learning a lot of things a good druid should know how to do, hopefully she'll learn and it won't cost others while she does.
As far as you are concerned, Cleric's place is as a healer and that's pretty much it. Of all the things you can do, grouped everyone just wants you to keep them alive and that's it. Before using any of your other abilites get a feel for how good the group is. If it's a good group and they're really not keeping you too busy, THEN you can throw in some nukes, but always be sparing. Even in a good group you don't want to get below 80% mana with nukes or other stuff. Crap happens and it's your job to be ready for it, you're the insurance policy and people will all look to you when things go bad.
Pacify/lull line of spells can be great, but only do it as a last resort. Enchanter should be the primary luller, with Paladin being next in line, you're the last person who wants the aggro if you get a resist. When Lull gets resist, it makes a second check against CHA for aggro. If you have a high CHA, most of the times even on a resist you won't get aggro, this is why you shold let the Enchanter do it, they should have a higher CHA. Don't bother focusing on CHA for yourself though, your main worries are AC, STA and HP's, oh, WIS is important too. hehe
Come level 20 casters classes should all be relying on spells. Druids can get away with tanking a little longer(becasue of their damage shields), but should really be kiting or casting too. It is good to keep your defense up, but at this level you should really be learning the classes main purposes.
I have a friend who's been PLing his wife's Druid and at level 39 she's still meleeing mobs with her damage shields up. I don't think she's really been grouped with more than 1 or 2 people at a time and usually while her hubby was helping so I don't think she's learnt her place in a group and I personally wouldn't want to be in the first real group she gets as I doubt she's really ready with all the things she should know. She missed out on learning a lot of things a good druid should know how to do, hopefully she'll learn and it won't cost others while she does.
As far as you are concerned, Cleric's place is as a healer and that's pretty much it. Of all the things you can do, grouped everyone just wants you to keep them alive and that's it. Before using any of your other abilites get a feel for how good the group is. If it's a good group and they're really not keeping you too busy, THEN you can throw in some nukes, but always be sparing. Even in a good group you don't want to get below 80% mana with nukes or other stuff. Crap happens and it's your job to be ready for it, you're the insurance policy and people will all look to you when things go bad.
Pacify/lull line of spells can be great, but only do it as a last resort. Enchanter should be the primary luller, with Paladin being next in line, you're the last person who wants the aggro if you get a resist. When Lull gets resist, it makes a second check against CHA for aggro. If you have a high CHA, most of the times even on a resist you won't get aggro, this is why you shold let the Enchanter do it, they should have a higher CHA. Don't bother focusing on CHA for yourself though, your main worries are AC, STA and HP's, oh, WIS is important too. hehe
SamiraX wrote:
I don't see any mention of stun or root.
In stunning the ******* over and over (unforunately my spell fizzled about every third time) I slowed his damage output down and when he finally took notice of my cleric and nuked him the melees where already free to hack him to pieces.
Sometimes it's SOOO relaxing to watch your tanks doing their job ;-)
Iluien the Silent wrote:
By the way your Lull/Pacify is not lame,
And for the Melee thing:
If a mob goes after a Caster for any reason my best bet to keep him alive is to engage the mob as fast as posible and have the caster nuke him into oblivion once I got his full attention.
To pump up the caster with heal spells and wait for a tank to get back to the third row and engage the mob is quite riskier in my opinion as it usually will take the tank valuable seconds to realize/get told he is suddenly needed at the back.
Quote:
If a mob goes after a Caster for any reason my best bet to keep him alive is to engage the mob as fast as posible and have the caster nuke him into oblivion once I got his full attention.
You can only get away with this because you are low level. The best bet to keep him or her alive is to root the mob, not to try and gain aggro. The the CC and the cleric are the last person you want with aggro.
I agree that root is the better solution, it's just that I am not sure if I will ever have room to memorize that spell.
But after all there is probably a good rooter in the group (opposed to yesterdays one) so I admit there'd be no need for me to melee then.
But after all there is probably a good rooter in the group (opposed to yesterdays one) so I admit there'd be no need for me to melee then.
I am no cleric expert, but I would think that root is one of the spells that clerics have memmed permanently, or at least most of the time. I may be corrected on this though.
Maybe I need some advice here too - my 8 spells for MMC are:
1. Heal BIG
2. Heal small (will be replaced with HOT)
3. Buff (Center)
4. Stun
5. Undead Nuke
6. Pacify
7. Cure(poison/disease)
8. Divine Aura (that 18 secs of Invulnerability are sufficient to get myself out alive if the leaders gives the command to and is stunning fast compared to gate, so seldomly interuppted)
I am not sure about the cure but my last shaman in the group said he got no room for cures which I believed and a druid has maybe also better to mem.
The undead nuke of course will be NOT replaced by a regular nuke if not fighting undead as the regular nukes or not cost-efficient compared to other classes.
1. Heal BIG
2. Heal small (will be replaced with HOT)
3. Buff (Center)
4. Stun
5. Undead Nuke
6. Pacify
7. Cure(poison/disease)
8. Divine Aura (that 18 secs of Invulnerability are sufficient to get myself out alive if the leaders gives the command to and is stunning fast compared to gate, so seldomly interuppted)
I am not sure about the cure but my last shaman in the group said he got no room for cures which I believed and a druid has maybe also better to mem.
The undead nuke of course will be NOT replaced by a regular nuke if not fighting undead as the regular nukes or not cost-efficient compared to other classes.
I would get rid of Center, put Root in that slot. You won't need to keep buffs memorized, just swap it in every half hour when you need to re-buff.
I would suggest this as a setup:
Big heal
Heal over time
cure disease/poison
root
stun
pacify
utility (swap out nuke for buff)
Divine Aura
I like to designate "utility" slots instead of specific spells to keep myself flexible.
At level 20 the mobs are so weak that you could melee all you want, and it would make sense to work on the skills you need to while it's this easy. Just remember that by 30 you'll need to be sitting down for the majority of the time (unless of course your group is always on the move)
I would suggest this as a setup:
Big heal
Heal over time
cure disease/poison
root
stun
pacify
utility (swap out nuke for buff)
Divine Aura
I like to designate "utility" slots instead of specific spells to keep myself flexible.
At level 20 the mobs are so weak that you could melee all you want, and it would make sense to work on the skills you need to while it's this easy. Just remember that by 30 you'll need to be sitting down for the majority of the time (unless of course your group is always on the move)
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The thought about the utility slot is a good one as it lessens the risk of mixing up the hotkeys.
BTW - Except for other Clerics I have been asked all the time "What is Divine Aura???" by my companions. Seems to me the spell is a bit underrated but does his job as an emercency spell much more reliable than gate.
BTW - Except for other Clerics I have been asked all the time "What is Divine Aura???" by my companions. Seems to me the spell is a bit underrated but does his job as an emercency spell much more reliable than gate.
I see Divine Aura as more of a travel/exploration spell. I have never seen a group/raid situation where a Cleric could use it to any benefit.
It is certainly good for saving your life, but it renders you completely useless in the process.
Most of the time, when things are getting out of hand the Cleric is going to be going flat out trying to help recover the situation, healing, rooting, stunning and at last resort, camping out. I personally can't see any advantage in being the only survivor standing there DA'd with everyone else laying dead around me and knowing full well that the instant DA fades I'm going to be killed anyway.
Maybe in some circstances it would allow you to run to safety, but I think the chances of getting some general useability out of it is not worth the wasted spell slot;
Hence, I never have it memmed.
I also never keep any buff spells memmed, these also waste a valuable slot.
Standard Battle Set;
Superior Heal
Remedy/utility swap slot (swap in cures, group heal, Stun or buffs as required)
Complete Heal
Celestial Heal
Banish Undead (swap to magic DD when in a place with no undead)
Force
Sound of Force
Root
Regarding protecting your casters, I completely disagree with the notion of the cleric engaging in melee to achieve this.
However I do think at times it is a reasonable tactic for the Cleric to pull aggro and take a few hits to save the caster, in particular the Enchanter.
Unless there is something terribly wrong, the Cleric will always have substantially more AC than a Chanter (I currently have around 1100 in standard buff form), so if I drop a heal on the Chanter and stun the mob, this should give the Chanter time to get off his mezz, if the mob comes to me and hits me around a bit, it gives the Chanter even more time to get his mezz on. I expect to be able to handle this without too much stress.
The Cleric should always be able to channel through a root as the last resort and step back out of melee range even if the Chanter doesn't get his mezz on or it is the Wizzy or someone, that you are trying to drag the mob off.
This works fine with a single add, but can be disasterous with multiple adds unless the rest of the group are fully aware of what is happening and know how to handle it. Because this will certainly also bring any loose mob in camp straight on to the cleric.
Once the cleric gets multiple adds on him/her things become very much more difficult and this is why for the most part it is the better strategy to have someone else other than the cleric charged with the job of pulling aggro away from the casters.
These are situational techniques that you develop a feel for as you progress, in particular where you can spend some time playing with the same people so each knows what the other is trying to do, or likely to do in a situation.
The best thing to do in most circumstances is to simply root the mob attacking the caster and tell them it is rooted so they can back away.
It is certainly good for saving your life, but it renders you completely useless in the process.
Most of the time, when things are getting out of hand the Cleric is going to be going flat out trying to help recover the situation, healing, rooting, stunning and at last resort, camping out. I personally can't see any advantage in being the only survivor standing there DA'd with everyone else laying dead around me and knowing full well that the instant DA fades I'm going to be killed anyway.
Maybe in some circstances it would allow you to run to safety, but I think the chances of getting some general useability out of it is not worth the wasted spell slot;
Hence, I never have it memmed.
I also never keep any buff spells memmed, these also waste a valuable slot.
Standard Battle Set;
Superior Heal
Remedy/utility swap slot (swap in cures, group heal, Stun or buffs as required)
Complete Heal
Celestial Heal
Banish Undead (swap to magic DD when in a place with no undead)
Force
Sound of Force
Root
Regarding protecting your casters, I completely disagree with the notion of the cleric engaging in melee to achieve this.
However I do think at times it is a reasonable tactic for the Cleric to pull aggro and take a few hits to save the caster, in particular the Enchanter.
Unless there is something terribly wrong, the Cleric will always have substantially more AC than a Chanter (I currently have around 1100 in standard buff form), so if I drop a heal on the Chanter and stun the mob, this should give the Chanter time to get off his mezz, if the mob comes to me and hits me around a bit, it gives the Chanter even more time to get his mezz on. I expect to be able to handle this without too much stress.
The Cleric should always be able to channel through a root as the last resort and step back out of melee range even if the Chanter doesn't get his mezz on or it is the Wizzy or someone, that you are trying to drag the mob off.
This works fine with a single add, but can be disasterous with multiple adds unless the rest of the group are fully aware of what is happening and know how to handle it. Because this will certainly also bring any loose mob in camp straight on to the cleric.
Once the cleric gets multiple adds on him/her things become very much more difficult and this is why for the most part it is the better strategy to have someone else other than the cleric charged with the job of pulling aggro away from the casters.
These are situational techniques that you develop a feel for as you progress, in particular where you can spend some time playing with the same people so each knows what the other is trying to do, or likely to do in a situation.
The best thing to do in most circumstances is to simply root the mob attacking the caster and tell them it is rooted so they can back away.
Quote:
This works fine with a single add, but can be disasterous with multiple adds unless the rest of the group are fully aware of what is happening and know how to handle it. Because this will certainly also bring any loose mob in camp straight on to the cleric.
Once the cleric gets multiple adds on him/her things become very much more difficult and this is why for the most part it is the better strategy to have someone else other than the cleric charged with the job of pulling aggro away from the casters.
Once the cleric gets multiple adds on him/her things become very much more difficult and this is why for the most part it is the better strategy to have someone else other than the cleric charged with the job of pulling aggro away from the casters.
And that's a perfect time to use that Divine Aura. I had pretty much written the spell off myself after I used it the first time at level 1. Way long recast time and you can't do anything but run.
But, I've started using it in that same situation, which happens usually about once a LDoN or so. Puller will get a few adds (2 or 3). MT begins whacking on one and everyone assists. Now the extras are either beating on the MT or the puller (usually they are one and the same) and health is dwindling rapidly. Cleric swings into action. Cast CH on MT and gain aggro from the adds. Now the extras are beating on me and my health is dropping quickly. Channel through a root on one, cast DA, step back and type /y. Now, if there is a chanter they can mez the remaining adds if they haven't already, or the MT can gain back aggro from the remaining mob, a melee type can off tank, or whatever.
I started using this tactic around level 40 after dying for the umpteenth time. I'm currently level 49 and am pretty happy with it.
Also thought I would weigh in on the whole meleeing as a cleric issue. I wish I had! I bought into the whole "clerics are only supposed to heal and med" line and spent most of my "life" post 25 sitting on my ***** As a result my melee skills are pretty bad for my current level. I recently started soloing Frost Giants in GD for the shawl quests and my poor offensive skills showed. It would have gone much faster if I could have landed blows more often.
Now I'm not advocating jumping in the fray on every pull, but if all I have to do is cast a superior healing on the MT every three or four mobs, why should I just sit there with FM like a vegetable? If my mana is over 90% and things are going smoothly, I'll jump up and smite away. Some people might prefer to nuke, I'ld rather save my mana for heals and buffs. But that's just me. You will do more damage with the nuke, but no one is really counting on you for DPS anyway. And for me, melee is more fun. Which ever you choose, use your best judgement based on your current situation and don't get carried away. Remember you are there to heal.
Just my 2 cents,
Johnny
If life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Then find someone that life has given vodka and have party.
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