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Offhand Weapon for RogueFollow

#1 Dec 21 2003 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I have spent some time looking at safehouse, and on Rogue discussion here, but cannot find an answer to this question.

I have a level 42 rogue, who currently uses Stone Bladed Stilletto in Mainhand, and Long Sword of Ethereal Energy in offhand.

I am not happy at all with negatives on LSOEE, and want to change. Everyone always suggests keeping all skills maxed, but when I look at various high-level rogue magelos I always see these guys equipping two piercers.

So I have three questions please.

1) What is most important thing to look for in offhand - I seem to remember reading somewhere that offhand swings on a fixed timer (i.e. not related to weapon delay) so the suggestion was that DMG was key in offhand. Help me understand please.

2) Why do all rogues say keep all skills maxed and then dual wield 2 piercers anyhow... or is that just post-epic rogues?

3) Any recommendations on offhand weapon for me? Thinking of switching to Defenders Lightblade, but there must be something better. Also, doubt I want any proc'ing weapon so as to avoid aggro.

4) Ok adding a fourth... any suggestions to current equipment please? Obviously have face, neck, shoulder and waist issues.
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=825751

Thanks a lot.
#2 Jan 23 2004 at 3:40 PM Rating: Default
I play a rogue.... lvl 53, dwarf, and I cant tell you how much better the defender lightblade was when a buddy turned me on to it. I think you will find it a superior weapon for off hand slashing. I was using a 1 h slashing , weapon speed 24, dam13, for a while, but even at lvl 53 I am getting a good damage hit with the lightblade agains mobs that are real tough. If you are in your fourties GET IT NOW...... YOU WONT BE SORRY!!! I paid 450 plat for mine....and even now im trying hard to find a better solid hit. Furthermore, the weapon speed is slow, but you hit twice as hard, LOWERING YOUR AGRO. And that in itself is a good thing. you will be trying to avoid mobs that hit for 100 pluss..... best let the SK, pally, or war keep all the agro that they can get. LOTS OF LUCK

Blackwell67
#3 Jan 23 2004 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Defender's Lightblade is a good choice. They are silly cheap (100pp) and the best ratio that is easily available.

I've just switched mine out for a second piercer for the reasons that Goalkeeper mentioned. Backstab modifier makes a big difference.

I now have Legendary Dagger of Might in offhand. It is not that rare and well within the sort of budget you mentioned. Mind you it is better than your current piercer so maybe that and a Lightblade would do nicely.

On the rest of the rig two items to think about are Imbued Granite Spaulders which are good resists and the LDoN Cryptrobber's Chestplate which seems to sell cheaply but is a definite upgrade to the Barbed.
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#4 Jan 23 2004 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
The only convincing reason (except for you come across just the right weapons) to use two piercers is poisoning. You can apply poison to two piercers but it only triggers on a weapon in the primary slot (but also not while backstabbing).

This can be interesting in soloing but the mobs really have to come one after the other to make it work that you switch in between weapons to poison one after the other.

At least It didn't work out for me.

#5 Jan 23 2004 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
Okay, well I appreciate all the posts, and enjoy the rogue discussion (hehe). And thank you all for taking the time. I have made some changes recently, and been leveling like a madman. I am one blue from 49 and am beginning my epic quest. So I have a pretty good idea of at least what one of my two weapons will be for the next 13 or so seasons... just picked parchment from Founy Today :D

Changes - I went out and bought Defender's lightblade, that thing is awesome - I can hit up to around 90 points of damage with it when nicely buffed, and it was only 150pp, and its slow, so I think that helps with aggro issues. I also recently purchased a Legendary Dagger of Might recently for ratio and for backstab modifier. More on choice and configuration of these three weapons in a moment, but am enjoying my options at the moment.

Ok so I am taking all equipment advice under advisement, and now believe that Ratio is KING in offhand. But I am left with the following questions please, which i suspect may encourage some debate. I bought a Fine Dark Cloak the other day and feel like that was a good upgrade. I also bought ravenscale shoulder pads and a necklace giving me both strength and dexterity.... in spite of your advice suggesting that I go with HPs.... (more on that later also).


Really, I have two mains points for discussion now:

1. Hit Points or ATK? I have always erred toward the side of agressiveness and not caution... Philosophically, I think that as a rogue, my job is to deal out damage, now I know, that if i cannot take a few hits, I am going to pay the price, and possibly cost my cleric some precious mana, and again when i get rezzed, more mana, and missing damage while I am gone (sorry about run on sentence). Recently, I have been focusing my attention on getting my ATK over 1000 and as high as I can go from there. Seems like in most groups these days (since about level 45) you are getting Temperance anyway, so you get the type of HP boost that no equipment will provide. And since I group with Taredoru the Shaman all the time, I will now be getting HOS a lot, so my attack goes up as well. But even with HOS I am not maxed on strength or dexterity, and I feel like I am letting my groups down by not hitting for as much damage as I could be. So I feel like I have to look for equipment to increase my strength and dex as much as possible, even if that means fewer HP and AC. Current stats are HP 1594, AC 788 (sux), ATK 950, STR 166, STA 126, AGI 149, DEX 147. Want to get so STR and DEX are maxed with HOS.

Okay, so that was not so much a question as a Mission Statement, but I post it here so that it may be criticized or applauded.

2. Weapon selection and configuration. So now I have Stone Bladed Stilletto and Defender's Lightblade and Legendary Dagger of Might

- Stone Bladed Stilleto offers nice high(ish) damage for the price, and +10 Dex and +10 Agi - both nice. Ratio 2 (not so good)
- Defender's Lighblade gives me big hits, with a few modifiers. Ratio 1.55 (pretty darn good)
- Legendary Dagger of Might (nice and cheap - 950 pp). Ratio 1.615 (pretty darn good) good str and dex mods. And VENGEANCE II adding 10 to my ATK rating.

Here is question part - (hehe) - I am still using Stone Bladed Stilletto in my Mainhand, and either of the other two in my offhand. People keep saying "Hey idiot, the LDOM has a way better ratio than that piece of crap SBS - wake up and ditch the SBS". To which I counter - "But I read somewhere that a rogue's mainhand weapon should concentrate entirely on ratio prior to level 50 or 55 (can't remember which) because up til then BS will account for only about 1/3 of your total dmg output. but after that, BS starts to count for more like 1/2 your damage, and that is the time when you need to get the highest damage weapon you can get your hands on" (hence SBS). Not to mention the fact that I like the eye candy... highest BS to date was 313 which comparing to other rogues i know is pretty good...

So... comments? Which one goes in Mainhand?

Then - what is all this talk about offhanding my ragebringer when i get it? I definitely intend to be weilding that bad-boy in my main hand.... I think that I will use it with LDOM (rage in main) so I can get the +10 ATK from Vengeance II and BS modifier.

Now - last (sorry this post is ridiculously long, and i fear, poorly written) - What about this for an idea. Get a Razorsharp Piranha Fin and add to it the LDON aug from BB merchant which adds +3 dmg to weapons that are over 30 delay... Sure 15 / 31 sucks pretty bad (2.066) but 18 / 31 looks better (1.72). And an 18 piercer? Come on... I am drooling just thinking about it. Specially if that notion I have about importance of damage in mainhand is correct.

I recently got the parsing program EQwatcher, but cannot get it to work (damn) but I will figure it out, and eventually update my magelo.

In the meantime, apologies for length of post, but I think there are some interesting topics here, hopefully not just for me. I personally think that piranha fin idea is ingenious. fin goes for about 2k on Karana server.
#6 Jan 23 2004 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
I think you should concentrate on HP's and AC. There is more to life than backstabbing.

Quote:
Seems like in most groups these days (since about level 45) you are getting Temperance anyway, so you get the type of HP boost that no equipment will provide.


Everything in EQ is cumulative. No single piece of equipment will give you more than temperance, but all of your equipment might.


"I will give you 10 dollars a day."

"No thats ok, my job already pays me $300 a day, I don't need $10 more per day?"

I would get yourself up to about 900 AC and 2000 hp's and then concentrate on your ATK rating. Odds are in getting you HP's and AC up you will be increasing your offensive capabilities as well. Check my magelo, all my equip is towards HP's, in getting this gear, I have got my Str and dex up to pretty descent levels.

In a perfect world, you should never tank, but when things go wrong it could be that extra 200 AC and 500hp that will stop your group from getting wiped.

Later on you might want to duo with Taredoru, then you will really be happy you have the gear to do so.

I wonder about that pirahna idea as well, can anyone answer that?

Edited, Fri Jan 23 20:43:32 2004 by Reinman
#7 Jan 23 2004 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The only convincing reason (except for you come across just the right weapons) to use two piercers is poisoning. You can apply poison to two piercers but it only triggers on a weapon in the primary slot (but also not while backstabbing).

This can be interesting in soloing but the mobs really have to come one after the other to make it work that you switch in between weapons to poison one after the other.

At least It didn't work out for me.


It didn't work because it doesn't work like that. Not according to the Safehouse anyway.

Quote:
From the Safehouse FAQ on poisons
Q:Can I poison my secondary weapon and my primary weapon for double effecti?
A:No. It seems like you are poisoning a weapon, but it would be more true to the game engine to say that you are activating a one-time proc on yourself that will go off on the next hit with a piercing weapon. You are not actually doing anything to the weapon. If it helps, think of it like casting a spell on yourself that will go off next time you stab a monster.


In fact the same FAQ advises that by using a non-piercing weapon and switching it to primary until the MA has firm aggro you can delay the poison going off and drawing unwanted aggro.
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#8 Jan 23 2004 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Then - what is all this talk about offhanding my ragebringer when i get it? I definitely intend to be weilding that bad-boy in my main hand.... I think that I will use it with LDOM (rage in main) so I can get the +10 ATK from Vengeance II and BS modifier.



Once you have your Ragebringer, and are level 56 so that Goblin Spear of Dread Tidings has it's full stats, you will want to buy it or camp it and put it in your mainhand with the ragebringer offhand; you'll get equal backstab damage with a lower delay which means more use of your damage bonus.

The spear will last you up until you're able to hit BoT tower bosses to upgrade it, or get the LDoN everfrost dagger.
#9 Jan 24 2004 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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LDoM in main, Lightblade in secondary.

I would try to focus on HP's AND Vengeance/Aura-equipment, although it is fairly rare and very expensive.

If you do a lot of LDoN's, Vengeance-items can be found almost everywhere. It will cost you a few hours, but there are a lot of ATK-items which fit on a lot of different items you are wearing.

http://www.squidbox.com/skp/eq/ldon/list.cgi

Check this list!

Also, good luck on your Ragebringer. It may not have the best ratio in the world, but the haste, Vengeance 8 and stats make it a wonderful weapon for the middle to high levels Rogues.

Grats on Founy, but don't get your hopes up too soon. Tani will be your nemesis for a long time to come.

Good luck!
#10 Jan 24 2004 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
Reinmon,

Taredoru and I rated down your post hehe... That is great that you have over 2000 HP... i would like to also, however, the strength and dex which you claim to be at "decent levels" are STR 161 and DEX 141. WIth a HOS buff your str gets in the low 200s but your dex does not even crack 200. I need to get close to maxed with a HOS like buff. And I KNOW that YOU have spent a lot of dough on your equipment of late.

Temperance tacks on roughly 800 HP. I consider a good HP item to add about a 50 HP modifier, so by your logic I would have to get a 50 HP modifier for 16 different slots. Wonder how my STR and DEX and ATK would look then.

PS - Tare and I duoed in some caverns in DL recently and did very well for ourselves =P


But thank you for your interest in my Piranha Fin idea. I wonder why no one is catching on to that one? Perhaps they are too busy buying up all the avalible Piranha fins on the market, lol.

PS - 1 yellow bub from 50 (sorry I am gonna beat you to that mark)
#11 Jan 24 2004 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
And yes Goalkeeper / Eivissa, those LDON Vengeance augments are awesome... Wonder if they will stack with Vengeance on Ragebringer, no worries I will figure that one out on my own. Thanks for all advice...

What do you think of Piranha Fin idea?

Quote:
Get a Razorsharp Piranha Fin and add to it the LDON aug from BB merchant which adds +3 dmg to weapons that are over 30 delay... Sure 15 / 31 sucks pretty bad (2.066) but 18 / 31 looks better (1.72). And an 18 piercer? Come on... I am drooling just thinking about it. Specially if that notion I have about importance of damage in mainhand is correct.
#12 Jan 24 2004 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
I fail to see your logic Dankhar. I never said you would get more hitpoint out of your gear then temperance, but I think we can all agree that more hit points is better.

If you get 800 hitpoints out of your gear, are you then going to turn down temperance when offered?

It all comes down to how you want to build your character, do you want to sacrifice all your defensive capabilities for 10% more damage. It is up to you.

I personally, think it would be a mistake.

Also, since I know we will be trying to complete several epics together as well as many quests, and since we don't have a "real" tank in our group of 4, it would be nice to think know that you could take a hit. SO what happens if you don't get temperance? Thats right, your are back to being a 1500 hp pansy, and my Shaman would ***** slap you toe to toe.

One mans opinion.
Edit = Had to substitute pansy as forum censored the previous word of like meaning.

Edited, Sat Jan 24 16:30:40 2004 by Reinman

Edited, Sat Jan 24 16:33:00 2004 by Reinman
#13 Jan 24 2004 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
On A more serious note, could one of you rogues out there confirm or deny my standpoint?

Rogues should never really get aggro to the extent of death.(if they know what they are doing, which I know Dankhar does) Thus what exactly is the arguement for a rogue keeping his HP's up. I want him to do so because of us going out and leveling and questing as a foursome. Our foursome consists of Shaman X 2, Rogue, Ranger, so the rogue having descent AC and HP's I think is very important to help with tanking duties.

One last question, what exactly is the relationship between STR/DEX/ATK and backstab?
#14 Jan 25 2004 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Those LDON Vengeance augments are awesome... Wonder if they will stack with Vengeance on Ragebringer,


Vengeance I = 5 ATK points. It caps at 250, so Vengeance 50 is the maximum for worn ATK. Yes, it stacks with your epic.

Quote:
One last question, what exactly is the relationship between STR/DEX/ATK and backstab?


It is a question of your level, you compared to the mob, stats, buffed stats, the damage of your piercer and backstab modifiers.

And not easy to answer, either. I suggest checking out the Safehouse.
#15 Jan 25 2004 at 3:21 AM Rating: Good
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Str and Dex (and Agi) are next to useless. You get a very small atk boost from more str, so small that it is negligible. More Dex helps proc rate, and unless you are relying on procs for debuffs etc, you need not worry about it at all. Agi is a small addition to AC, again, negligible.

There are 2 things a rogue needs stat wise. HP and ATK. In that order. No matter how much ATK you have, if you are dead, you are pretty ****** DPS. A living rogue is better than a dead one, always. AC and resists are probably next in line.
#16 Jan 25 2004 at 3:30 AM Rating: Good
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Oh btw, Razorsharp Pirhana Fin has Slot Type 4 for augments. The +3 dmg to 30+ Dly weapons Augment is type 5.
#17 Jan 25 2004 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
Reinman, I am not saying that I don't want hitpoints. Bring the hitpoints on. However, I am saying that I am prioritizing offensive capability and ATK over HP due to the fact that my resources are limited and I can't afford uber everything just now, where I could max HPs and max my ATK.

I spend a lot more time playing the game w/o you and our group of 4 than i do with you and the group, therefore it seems ridiculous have all of my equipment geared towards maximum tanking capability since most of the time, I will be expected to be offensive, and bringing these mobs down. Anyway, just expressing a preference for the offensive... don't want to be outdamaged by the rogue standing next to me, or a monk, heaven forbid. So that's that. Where good STR and DEX items are not available I will be concentrating on AC HP and resists. And the sooner i get my Ragebringer, the better, as it has awesome offensive modifiers.

Thanks Outcast for the info on the Piranha Fin... damn! And just as an FYI, I took Goalkeeper's suggestion and am mainhanding Legendary Dagger of Might and offhanding Defender's Lightblade so thanks for that and all other suggestions.

Thanks again,
Dankenhar Hardendank
50th Season Rogue
Karana Server
#18 Jan 25 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
Hmmmmm that hurt! Are we still friends?

Be nice or I won't give you any of this, when we do group together.

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=2595

;-)



Edited, Sun Jan 25 20:04:04 2004 by Reinman
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